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INTEREST: Metal Gear Solid Composer Talks Konami Fall Out


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Nakurawari



Joined: 30 Dec 2013
Posts: 265
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:29 pm Reply with quote
While I still think that what Konami has been doing is petty, and just wrong, I do agree that Kojima shouldn't have been so lax about spending or delays. I know he wants to be a great game, and that's fine, however there needs to be some restraint so I understand where Konami is coming from.
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Nakurawari wrote:
While I still think that what Konami has been doing is petty, and just wrong, I do agree that Kojima shouldn't have been so lax about spending or delays. I know he wants to be a great game, and that's fine, however there needs to be some restraint so I understand where Konami is coming from.


At the same time, removing arguably the one individual and team that kept their company relevant may cost them FAR more in the long run, but we'll see. The fact they're handling it in this manner isn't exactly granting themselves any favors either for that matter.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1485
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Before rumors get out of hand. There is absolutely no evidence that Kojima was wastefully spending things or badly managing MGSV's development.

That MGSV would be a more expensive endeavour is due to FOX Engine Development which is something Konami greenlit long ago with the intention of developing FOX up front and getting it right before using it on every project going forward, before Konami 180'ed and now seems to be focusing more on mobile, which FOX was also developed to support.

Even Muranaka has come out to clarify what she meant in the interview which was just speculation on her part and her experiences working with Kojima on MGS1-3. She had no further involvement with Konami past MGS3.



That said, the first initial failure of metal Gear RISING that was by Shigenobu Matsuyama while Kojima was working on Peace Walker, which then had to be given to Platinum Games as well as MGSV's and subsequently FOX Engine's long dev time could've played a part given the necessity of Ground Zero's release as a very short demo for which Kojima mentioned its sales would be used to measure how much longer MGSVTPP would spend in development.

If anything getting FOX Engine right would've been a necessity for Kojima, and unlike typical Japanese habits of creating new engines from scratch or having multiple engines amongst multiple teams, Kojima was trying to reduce this wasteful time and expense by having one solidified in-house engine like Western developers do, something even Square Enix and Capcom have attempted with Crystal Tools/Luminous and Phanta Rei. But given the problems Square Enix went through with Crystal Tools, Kojima undoubtedly wanted to avoid those pitfalls with FOX, which might've necessitated more time and effort which is something the suits at Konami might've come to blows with.

But if anything given that Kojima is heavily into also merchandising MGS, and re-releases of the MGS and ZOE HD collections etc. there has always been a source of money coming in that made MGS profitable. So it's doubtful that concerns about profit were the only thing that occurred between the Konami/Kojima fallout that all looks to have taken place very recently and abruptly. Considering MGS is Konami's one and only big tentpole that gets its own financial section all to itself in fiscal reports, worries about expenses don't add up. Though no doubt some suits are arguing that the money is better spent on more mobile investment for higher returns at cheaper sums.
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Gasero



Joined: 24 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:00 pm Reply with quote
Sony has allowed Team Ico to develop 'The Last Guardian' for over 10 years so i suspect there is some of the 'respectful' Japanese business culture going on here.

Kojima seems like an artist first and a businessperson last. Konami likely had other aspirations for their business that didn't match with Kojima and it caused internal strife.

I love what Kojima has done in the past, but his projects did seem to get increasingly out of hand. The latest Metal Gear solid games have not interested me at all because they seem so crazy uninteresting compared to the previous games that were crazy intriguing.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1744
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:58 pm Reply with quote
Gasero wrote:
Sony has allowed Team Ico to develop 'The Last Guardian' for over 10 years so i suspect there is some of the 'respectful' Japanese business culture going on here.

Kojima seems like an artist first and a businessperson last. Konami likely had other aspirations for their business that didn't match with Kojima and it caused internal strife.

I love what Kojima has done in the past, but his projects did seem to get increasingly out of hand. The latest Metal Gear solid games have not interested me at all because they seem so crazy uninteresting compared to the previous games that were crazy intriguing.


Except that Kojima wanted to quit after the last few games, but Konami basically kept forcing him to come back.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
and Konami's expense.
I laugh at this so much since so much of their profit in the last decade was just from him.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14106
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:31 pm Reply with quote
It's one thing to have a fallout, but it's another thing how messy they're handling it.

It's kinda like that DeAndre Jordan and Dallas Mavericks that was all the news recently. It's one thing for Jordan to go back on his verbal deal with the Mavs (which is his right as a player), but it's another thing not even bothering to call the Mavs owner Mark Cuban about his change of heart - and he still hasn't called!

It's how they handle these things that people remember.
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GrilleSechsH



Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:37 am Reply with quote
The way I look at it if this is true, I would also be mad about not getting an extra cut from my golden egg. So I'm just going to lay here while you feed me more before I lay the next one.
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Lemonchest



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:24 am Reply with quote
Well the lesson here is that sometimes it's better not to pull an opinion out of your arse just for the sake of having an answer to a question you know nothing about.
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Sunset In the Hood



Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Manehattan Ghettos
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:32 am Reply with quote
Lemonchest wrote:
Well the lesson here is that sometimes it's better not to pull an opinion out of your arse just for the sake of having an answer to a question you know nothing about.


Irony strikes when you least expect it.
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Gasero



Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 930
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:58 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
Except that Kojima wanted to quit after the last few games, but Konami basically kept forcing him to come back.

That's the story we keep hearing, but people don't always tell the truth or the full story. If Kojima wanted to stop making Metal Gear games he could have long since retired or left for another company if Konami refused to allow him to work on different franchises. Before this situation became public, Kojima was working ona Silent Hill game, so we do not know what the deal was between Konami and Kojima when it came to creative freedom.
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Lemonchest



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:59 am Reply with quote
Sunset In the Hood wrote:
Lemonchest wrote:
Well the lesson here is that sometimes it's better not to pull an opinion out of your arse just for the sake of having an answer to a question you know nothing about.


Irony strikes when you least expect it.

I always strike when the irony's hot.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3805
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:22 am Reply with quote
Gasero wrote:
CrownKlown wrote:
Except that Kojima wanted to quit after the last few games, but Konami basically kept forcing him to come back.

That's the story we keep hearing, but people don't always tell the truth or the full story. If Kojima wanted to stop making Metal Gear games he could have long since retired or left for another company if Konami refused to allow him to work on different franchises. Before this situation became public, Kojima was working ona Silent Hill game, so we do not know what the deal was between Konami and Kojima when it came to creative freedom.


About the only way I could see Kojima feeling "forced" would be if he had a non-compete agreement, but those don't last forever, and if it is really so bad, I think he would have quit. With his reputation, practically any developer would have hired him as soon as they could.
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BGMaxie



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 60
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:29 am Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
Before rumors get out of hand. There is absolutely no evidence that Kojima was wastefully spending things or badly managing MGSV's development.

That MGSV would be a more expensive endeavour is due to FOX Engine Development which is something Konami greenlit long ago with the intention of developing FOX up front and getting it right before using it on every project going forward, before Konami 180'ed and now seems to be focusing more on mobile, which FOX was also developed to support.

Even Muranaka has come out to clarify what she meant in the interview which was just speculation on her part and her experiences working with Kojima on MGS1-3. She had no further involvement with Konami past MGS3.



That said, the first initial failure of metal Gear RISING that was by Shigenobu Matsuyama while Kojima was working on Peace Walker, which then had to be given to Platinum Games as well as MGSV's and subsequently FOX Engine's long dev time could've played a part given the necessity of Ground Zero's release as a very short demo for which Kojima mentioned its sales would be used to measure how much longer MGSVTPP would spend in development.

If anything getting FOX Engine right would've been a necessity for Kojima, and unlike typical Japanese habits of creating new engines from scratch or having multiple engines amongst multiple teams, Kojima was trying to reduce this wasteful time and expense by having one solidified in-house engine like Western developers do, something even Square Enix and Capcom have attempted with Crystal Tools/Luminous and Phanta Rei. But given the problems Square Enix went through with Crystal Tools, Kojima undoubtedly wanted to avoid those pitfalls with FOX, which might've necessitated more time and effort which is something the suits at Konami might've come to blows with.

But if anything given that Kojima is heavily into also merchandising MGS, and re-releases of the MGS and ZOE HD collections etc. there has always been a source of money coming in that made MGS profitable. So it's doubtful that concerns about profit were the only thing that occurred between the Konami/Kojima fallout that all looks to have taken place very recently and abruptly. Considering MGS is Konami's one and only big tentpole that gets its own financial section all to itself in fiscal reports, worries about expenses don't add up. Though no doubt some suits are arguing that the money is better spent on more mobile investment for higher returns at cheaper sums.

There isn't evidence either that Konami took those decisions on petty or otherwise whimsical thoughts that somewhat support the popular belief of supposed predatory or abusive practices from Konami on Kojima that have the people on fire in the social media.

This here offers a WHOLE different perspective to the whole story, and knowing how much Kojima has tried to sell this game as two games no less, and as the "last" Metal Gear Solid from his part, he is clearly passionate about this, so there are more than ample reasons to believe that what she said is true, and that Konami was wasting too much. Even if the product you're making is likely to bring huge money IN, there is the big issue of financing the costs and for that you need "cash in pocket", readily available to use RIGHT then, and the profits you won't see until release, so financing ALL that time with a game of this caliber is likely to bring more than 2 or 3 financial headaches.

On another note you can look at the IGA case. IGA started his Bloodstained campaign thinking the genre could still be workable, while Konami was skeptical, and they were NOT the only ones, I mean even IGA's potential partners were skeptical and would co-operate ONLY if he could prove there was demand.

What I mean to say here is that if other companies even did and thought the same as Konami, it means that Konami is not THAT wrong about how it tries to protect its business. A lot of people seem to forget that first and foremost as a business they must make sure to SURVIVE and stay firm, rather than just please any crowd of fans even if that means destroying their insides out.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:11 am Reply with quote
Mostly OT, and I honestly don't mean this in a "negative" way, but does anyone else think Muranaka looks like a Japanese Roseanne Barr? It was just the first thing I thought when I saw the article on the main page and had complete cognitive dissonance associating that fact with MGS.
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