Forum - View topic
INTEREST: March comes in like a lion Joins Japanese Government to Fight Bullying


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ickybott555



Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:27 pm Reply with quote
I'm happy that March comes in like a lion is animating this arc and is raising awareness to stop this preventable issue. Bullying is sad and we can talk about why it haopens all day long, but not many people try to find solutions to deal with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 2349
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Tone down the conformity and the bullying will go way down. The problem is straight up mentioned in the article.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Compelled to Reply



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Japanese culture's emphasis on conformity encourages some people to bully those who stand out from the crowd.

Wow, what a ridiculous statement. If upholding societal norms is considering bullying, I suppose it must be everywhere. You know, the kind of things that built distinct advanced civilizations. Abandoning it is something Frankfurt School nuts believed, and Antifa and SJ\/\/s didn't receive the memo it failed miserably.

Bullying is an inevitable part of life, regardless of culture, and is especially prevalent at adolescence. It was never such a problem until we all decided to talk about it after serious shit like Columbine, and approach dealing with it the completely wrong way. Sure, while the aforementioned campaign is cute and a great way to help raise awareness, it won't do much to help solve the problem. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, which thanks to how we decided to deal with bullying unfortunately results in the victim getting in a lot of trouble, too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 3581
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:
Quote:
Japanese culture's emphasis on conformity encourages some people to bully those who stand out from the crowd.

Wow, what a ridiculous statement. If upholding societal norms is considering bullying, I suppose it must be everywhere.


That's not what is being implied at all. People ripping hearing aids out of deaf children's ears, throwing their books off bridges, and beating them up in class is not upholding "societal norms", it is assault. People nearly drowning classmates in toilets because they have a terminal illness is not upholding "societal norms", it is attempted murder. People beating a classmate and then forcing him to shoplift is not upholding "societal norms", it is cowardice. People burning a classmate's arm with cigarettes because he had a speech impediment is not upholding "societal norms". etc. I can go on all day with the terrifying true stories of bullying in Japanese schools. It's a very serious problem and it needs to be dealt with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 2349
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:
Quote:
Japanese culture's emphasis on conformity encourages some people to bully those who stand out from the crowd.

Wow, what a ridiculous statement. If upholding societal norms is considering bullying, I suppose it must be everywhere. You know, the kind of things that built distinct advanced civilizations. Abandoning it is something Frankfurt School nuts believed, and Antifa and SJ\/\/s didn't receive the memo it failed miserably.

Bullying is an inevitable part of life, regardless of culture, and is especially prevalent at adolescence. It was never such a problem until we all decided to talk about it after serious shit like Columbine, and approach dealing with it the completely wrong way. Sure, while the aforementioned campaign is cute and a great way to help raise awareness, it won't do much to help solve the problem. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, which thanks to how we decided to deal with bullying unfortunately results in the victim getting in a lot of trouble, too.


It's too rigid in Japan, school and in some cases work in Japan is a literal occupational hazard because of it being too rigid. Also, the bullying is worse in Asia in general and help is scarce (the teachers can be cruel as well) unlike in the West, where help is available, but not always used even though it's not perfect.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ScruffyKiwi



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 522
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:43 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
It's too rigid in Japan, school and in some cases work in Japan is a literal occupational hazard because of it being too rigid. Also, the bullying is worse in Asia in general and help is scarce (the teachers can be cruel as well) unlike in the West, where help is available, but not always used even though it's not perfect.


Japanese is an amazing country but it, along with many other countries has it's share of issues. Bullying is a problem all over the world. My own county (New Zealand) has horrendously high teen suicide rates which are often the result of bullying.

Bullying is no joke. It kills people.

EDIT: Added link to a BBC article on New Zealand's teen suicide problem and issues with bullying

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40284130


Last edited by ScruffyKiwi on Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FtKaru



Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 66
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:48 pm Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:
Quote:
Japanese culture's emphasis on conformity encourages some people to bully those who stand out from the crowd.

If upholding societal norms is considering bullying, I suppose it must be everywhere.

You can "uphold societal norms" without physically or mentally torturing someone because they're slightly different than you. Plus, Japanese ideas of conformity (and many Asian countries in general) include a lot more than just adhering to social norms and are typically way more extreme than the west, which already has its fair share of this stuff. But y'know, maybe beating the shit out of something as trivial as being part-Japanese is just for the betterment of society
Quote:
It was never such a problem until we all decided to talk about it after serious shit like Columbine

A lot of things aren't prominent issues until people actually start talking about them, but that doesn't mean they were never issues or that we should continue to ignore them. What's completely unjustifiable is finally getting a wake-up call, realizing something is wrong, and choosing to ignore the issue because you've never addressed it previously. We shouldn't just ignore the other school shootings and thousands of teen suicides tied to bullying since then because no one spoke up before Columbine.
Quote:
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, which thanks to how we decided to deal with bullying unfortunately results in the victim getting in a lot of trouble, too.
Fighting fire with fire, like with the various stabbings and shootings? Unless you're insinuating that letting these kids duke out would somehow prevent those things from happening since these issues would resolve on their own, but then I'd argue that a lot of people being bullied aren't exactly in the place where they can fight back and not suffer even worse as a result.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Compelled to Reply



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:50 am Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
That's not what is being implied at all. People ripping hearing aids out of deaf children's ears, throwing their books off bridges, and beating them up in class is not upholding "societal norms", it is assault. People nearly drowning classmates in toilets because they have a terminal illness is not upholding "societal norms", it is attempted murder. People beating a classmate and then forcing him to shoplift is not upholding "societal norms", it is cowardice. People burning a classmate's arm with cigarettes because he had a speech impediment is not upholding "societal norms". etc. I can go on all day with the terrifying true stories of bullying in Japanese schools. It's a very serious problem and it needs to be dealt with.

Nice movie references. It really affirms you have an "everything I learned about Japan I learned from anime" mindset. Stuff like that happens everywhere, and it's always isolated incidents which are blown out of proportion and made worse by news coverage. At least it makes people become rightfully outraged.

Hoppy800 wrote:
It's too rigid in Japan, school and in some cases work in Japan is a literal occupational hazard because of it being too rigid. Also, the bullying is worse in Asia in general and help is scarce (the teachers can be cruel as well) unlike in the West, where help is available, but not always used even though it's not perfect.

It's more rigid in Japan because that's the compromise for better security. Talking about work, many employers still follow the "job for life" mindset. It has its flaws, but in terms of workplace harassment, it beats being bullied AND fired, and shame of having to explain to a new potential employer why you were fired.

Also, what help in the West? It does absolutely nothing. Kids are bullied to hell and back, and any "help" that wasn't ignored only made things worse.

FtKaru wrote:
You can "uphold societal norms" without physically or mentally torturing someone because they're slightly different than you. Plus, Japanese ideas of conformity (and many Asian countries in general) include a lot more than just adhering to social norms and are typically way more extreme than the west, which already has its fair share of this stuff. But y'know, maybe beating the shit out of something as trivial as being part-Japanese is just for the betterment of society

A lot of things aren't prominent issues until people actually start talking about them, but that doesn't mean they were never issues or that we should continue to ignore them. What's completely unjustifiable is finally getting a wake-up call, realizing something is wrong, and choosing to ignore the issue because you've never addressed it previously. We shouldn't just ignore the other school shootings and thousands of teen suicides tied to bullying since then because no one spoke up before Columbine.

Fighting fire with fire, like with the various stabbings and shootings? Unless you're insinuating that letting these kids duke out would somehow prevent those things from happening since these issues would resolve on their own, but then I'd argue that a lot of people being bullied aren't exactly in the place where they can fight back and not suffer even worse as a result.

Social norms are about conformity, but if you're talking about race/ethnicity, many people are bullied here in the West for the same reason. Frankly it's often the opposite in some schools, like in Europe with refugees who just don't care and believe they're entitled to beat the shit out of who they're told are "oppressors."

It's human nature to be reactionary, and very few things can be done to prevent things in advance.

Yes, I am sort of insinuating them to duke it out and not take that kind of shit. We used to solve all our problems that way before the 1990s, but the catch was that more kids would mutually leave each other alone.


Last edited by Compelled to Reply on Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:10 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 3581
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:00 am Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:

Nice movie references. It really affirms you have an "everything I learned about Japan I learned from anime" mindset. Stuff like that happens everywhere, and it's always isolated incidents which are blown out of proportion and made worse by news coverage. At least it makes people become rightfully outraged.


Everything I stated has happened in real life in Japanese schools(the first just happens to also be in a movie). I know several people who taught in Japan and witnessed these on a daily basis. Japan has a very big problem with bullying. It's also bad elsewhere, so let's do what we can to prevent it everywhere, please.

Teaching people how to defend themselves is important. I beat the sh*t out of the only kid who ever tried to bully me years ago, and it felt great, but not everyone can do that. Japan's school system makes it even more difficult to stand up for yourself than it is in a lot of other places, so even people who are very physically capable undergo significant bullying if they do/say/look/feel the wrong way. They are taught to just take it, to avoid causing a scene(a big problem in itself). Duking it out is just not a solution for a lot of people. Teaching people to have empathy and to be understanding is a much better long term solution than teaching victims that they are the one at fault, rather than the aggressor, and that they should suck it up. There are ways to make people stronger without the need for something as destructive as bullying, if that's what you're implying.


Last edited by relyat08 on Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Compelled to Reply



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:08 am Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
Everything I stated has happened in real life(the first just happens to also be in a movie). Japan has a big problem with bullying. It's also bad elsewhere, so let's do what we can to prevent it everywhere, please. Why are you trying so hard to deny this is a problem?

Teaching people how to defend themselves is important. I beat the sh*t out of the only kid who ever tried to bully me years ago, and it felt great, but not everyone can do that. Japan's school system makes it even more difficult to stand up for yourself than it is in a lot of other places, so even people who are very physically capable undergo significant bullying if they do/say/look/feel the wrong way. They are taught to just take it, to avoid causing a scene(a big problem in itself). Duking it out is just not a solution for a lot of people. Teaching people to have empathy and to be understanding is a much better long term solution than teaching victims that they are the one at fault, rather than the aggressor, and that they should suck it up. There are ways to make people stronger without the need for something as destructive as bullying, if that's what you're implying.

I'm not denying it's a problem. I'm just saying it has nothing to do with culture as its impact is propagated by a myriad of failures to address it have made it become a modern phenomenon. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to figure it out, rather just go back to how things were and take it from there.

Of course you shouldn't stand up for yourself as a last resort at school, rather out of sight. Verbal abuse is a bigger issue anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1066
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:20 am Reply with quote
Compelled to Reply wrote:
relyat08 wrote:
Everything I stated has happened in real life(the first just happens to also be in a movie). Japan has a big problem with bullying. It's also bad elsewhere, so let's do what we can to prevent it everywhere, please. Why are you trying so hard to deny this is a problem?

I'm not denying it's a problem. I'm just saying it has nothing to do with culture as its impacts is propagated by a myriad of failures to address it have made it become a modern phenomenon. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to figure it out, and just go back to how things were and take it from there.

Look, you are being incredibly disrespectful. Outright encouraging people to mock others and suggest mocking back or trying to cause violence is slander in every sense of the word. Would you like it if I were to call you a f****, regardless of whether or not you are one? Or how about this: would you like it if, after you called me a n***** regardless of whether or not I am one, the next time I saw you I shot you pointblank in the face? No, you wouldn’t. So don’t approach the topic by giving people the finger for trying to solve it, because all you’re doing is making yourself look like a bully.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CrispyCritter



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:56 am Reply with quote
I don't view conformity in Japan as being the root cause of bullying. Some kids will always find a reason to bully; they'll make one up if they need to. That will always exist everywhere.

Where Japan's conformity most affects bullying is in the ability to deal with it. Kids cannot ask for help for either themselves or others; teachers know they can't protect a victim without saying the victim is "not part of the herd".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 3581
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:56 am Reply with quote
^according to interviews with bullies in Japan, the victim "not fitting in" and "disrupting the unity of the class"(by which they mean, 'not being like everyone else') are the most commonly cited reasons for why they were targeted. Not only is conformity at least one of the root causes, but like you noted, it also perpetuates it.

Compelled to Reply wrote:

Of course you shouldn't stand up for yourself as a last resort at school, rather out of sight. Verbal abuse is a bigger issue anyway.


Regardless of where or how you stand up for yourself, it is viewed as "causing a scene" in Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1377
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Its basically bullying those who either want to be a more individual person or those who are but not by choice, like those with disabilities. Every bit of help like this is welcomed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Manga
Compelled to Reply



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Gemnist wrote:
Look, you are being incredibly disrespectful. Outright encouraging people to mock others and suggest mocking back or trying to cause violence is slander in every sense of the word. Would you like it if I were to call you a f****, regardless of whether or not you are one? Or how about this: would you like it if, after you called me a n***** regardless of whether or not I am one, the next time I saw you I shot you pointblank in the face? No, you wouldn’t. So don’t approach the topic by giving people the finger for trying to solve it, because all you’re doing is making yourself look like a bully.

Reality is the biggest bully.

relyat08 wrote:
^according to interviews with bullies in Japan, the victim "not fitting in" and "disrupting the unity of the class"(by which they mean, 'not being like everyone else') are the most commonly cited reasons for why they were targeted. Not only is conformity at least one of the root causes, but like you noted, it also perpetuates it.

Regardless of where or how you stand up for yourself, it is viewed as "causing a scene" in Japan.

Of course it's a convenient excuse to bully somebody, rather than telling to truth, like an inferiority complex, personal issues, and/or other psychological impulses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Loading next article...