Forum - View topicDifferences in Train Man "Densha Otoko" Versions
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Can someone give me a rundown of the differences between the different manga versions of Train Man? I've been reading the CMX released version (yes, I know, I'm in the minority that actually likes the art of this version best) and with the second volume, the series takes a much more serious tone.
I was curious if, plot twist and event wise, the different manga versions were essentially the same. Or are they the same up until a certain point then diverge in radically different paths? Also, is anyone planning to get all of the currently licensed versions of this story? Personally, I'm beginning to seriously consider it. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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The thread here should be useful: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32771
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Richard J.
Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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 Okay, this will teach me not to post a question before using the search option. I apologize for that. I was in a hurry when I posted.
I read through jgreen's in-depth on the three and it answered most of my questions. I'm still not sure how big the differences plot wise are with the Viz and CMX versions, but the Del Rey one-shot sounds like a very different creature from the other two. Again, sorry about the slightly pointless post. I'll try to run a quick search in the future before starting a Q-thread. |
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jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Hey, thanks man! Glad you found it informative. If you have any more questions, just let me know.... |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Heya jgreen,
Your comparison of the 3 is interesting, but I have to disagree with you somewhat with respect to Watanabe's work. On the whole, I might agree with your assessment, but not having read the Viz or Del Rey versions, I can't say for certain. What I can say is related to the CMX manga and I think you (somewhat) do this book/line a disservice with your review. While it IS more "typical" in it's presentation, I also found the art better for this version as I think the way Hermes is designed is better in keeping with the "cute" persona she is intended to portray (whereas the Viz version she looks more "plain", based on the cover). I also think to get a full opinion on the work you need to see the second volume. The first book is more of a "setup" piece whereas thje second volume develops the story. (this is also probably in part due to the first volume being thinner than the Viz book) In book 2, you (obviously) get a better handle on Hermes' character as well as an added bonus of WHY Densha's actions were so impactful for her. Also, Watanabe puts more effort into developing the channel denizens (somewhat akin to what the TV show did). Other members of the channel are explored a bit more closely and their actions outside the channel are giving more time, which helps flesh out the "Tokyo" of Watanabe's Densha Otoko. Also, some of the other characters (and notes from the author) help give some more "depth" to both Densha and Hermes and show that they are not acting in a "vacuum". In the end, it DOES have that Love Hina-esque, "pathetic geek gets girl" feel (and look), but that's one of the primary allures of the story in the first place. I may check out the Viz version, but the cover/art (to me) makes it appear more just a typical "romance/drama" manga rather then the "class breaking" story underneath. Because really, "Densha Otoko" as a story of a geek getting a girl isn't all that notable. What makes the formula "exceptional" is that Hermes is an "exceptional" girl, and Densha considers himself a "below average" guy, and the story is about how that's not important if you can make a genuine connection. If Hermes is an average girl, and Densha is an average guy, then "Densha Otoko" is just an average story with a whole lot of internet voyeurs. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Hey Heero! You can call me Jason. 
Well, to be fair, the crux of my article was to compare and contrast the three series to each other, and I judged them based more on technique and how their storytelling and art worked together to do the best justice to the story as a whole. To me, the Hara version felt more like Train_Man than Watanabe's did, even though they were both enjoyable in their own way. It should be noted, too, that my review to the CMX one isn't negative at all, just not as positive as the Hara one. If I had to assign letter grades, I'd give the Hara one a solid A, the Watanabe one a B to B+, and the Ocha one a C.
I think you need to leaf through the book to really give Hara's art a fair shake. To me, his version looks more like the Hermes I would picture. Remember, Hermes is supposed to be older than Densha, and come from both a better social background and better current social status: her parents are rich (hence the big house and the fancy, very European gift of imported French teacups) and she works as a office lady. So to me, Hara's version exudes those qualities. She's beautiful, womanly, and very adult in appearance. By contrast, Watanabe's Hermes looks FAR too young, to me. She looks like she'd be high school aged (or younger!) and she doesn't have an air of sophistication to her . When she shows up for their first date toward the end of the first volume and she's in her civvies, she doesn't carry herself like an office lady would. Again, I'm not saying Watanabe's art is bad or wrong, just that it doesn't reflect to me the qualities that I think need to be present in Hermes.
Well, it's certainly good to hear that there's plenty of developments in the second volume. As to why I only reviewed the first volume, that's all CMX sent me. If they wanted me to review the second volume, they should have sent it to me. 
To be fair, both volumes should serve as strong introductions to the property. They're $10 chunks that should give equal bang for their buck, as people generally buy one volume of a series at a time, and if they like it they keep going. That first volume needs to grab their attention enough to make them want to read more, and to me, Hara's version did that better. The Viz GN is only 10 pages thicker than the CMX one, yet it contains FAR more series. Hara's version is at the same point storywise on page 112 that the Watanabe version is at page 182. And while it's good that Hermes gets developed more in the 2nd volume, it's a basic storytelling practice that you have to get people to care about your characters. If your book only has two main characters, and after setting down a volume your readers still know next to nothing about one of them, to me that's a pretty major storytelling flaw.
Interesting. I do have to admit I have not seen the TV series, but I'm interested to see how they develop this aspect. I had more or less decided that I was only going to stick with the Hara manga, but you've intrigued me enough that I'll be finishing out Watanabe's, too, sooner or later.
I agree with you 100%, and all I'm saying is, from my eyes, the Hara version does all those things you're looking for even better than Watanabe's. The class distinction is even more well-defined (see my art comments above), and man, I just REALLY think you're selling Hara's art short. To me, that was the main selling point, and not just appearance-wise. Hara's a 20-year veteran of the manga industry, and his use of pacing and body language go much farther in developing the love story than any other aspect of the book. I hope you do check out the Viz version, even if it is just the 1st volume, and let me know what you think. I think you'll be surprised by how much you like it. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Hey Jason. Thanks for the expanded information. I fully understand your point about how young Hermes looks, I think it's just a stylistic preference for one vs. the other. (For example, I'm not a fan of Leiji Matsumoto's style either) I think if someone prefers more "cutesy" artwork, Watanabe-san's will be more appealing, but that's just "different strokes".
re: The TV series, one interesting aspect of the TV series is that in the early episodes, each episode "begins" and "ends" with events in the life of a specific channel member. So by the end of the series, you have a good idea of why some of the people are in there and why they continue with the channel. Watanabe's manga also does this to an extent, but not in the same way. Without spoiling, one thing that occurs in vol. 2 is that one of the channel members tries to go "witness" one of Densha's dates with Hermes. She doesn't "succeed", but it is an interesting interlude and there's an amusing mistaken identity involved. I think Watanabe's manga does a good enough job adhering to the formula while also making some interesting additions to the story to make it entertaining. And sorry if I was a little over-enthusiastic with my comments. Altho you didn't give it a negative review, your comments about Watanabe's version read a little more "dismissive" and seem to chalk it up as more "cliched" than the other. I think this is mostly due to opinions of the art style, but on that score, I totally understand where Richard is coming from so I felt I should at least add my thoughts as someone who has so far enjoyed the two vols. But I also might give Hara's version a closer look to see how it goes. One final thing, if you haven't seen the TV series, you might want to check out at least an episode. IIRC, the Hermes in the TV series is Kyoko in the live action Maison.  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misaki_Ito )
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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I don't know, I don't think it's 100% "different strokes" in this case. A character's age should be immediately recognizable, regardless of the artist's style, and in Watanabe's case, the characters really don't look their age. If you picked any random reader and showed them the book and asked them how old the characters were, I bet 9 out of 10 would say they're in high school or younger, and not young adults. Which isn't to say that, as you said, someone who prefers "cutesy" artwork won't still prefer his art, but I think that that is definitely a weakness.
Ha! That sounds like a nice twist, akin to in the movie when spoiler[the businessman and the 3 otaku run into each other at the tea shop.]  Sounds like a good addition.
Hey, no worries, man. I'm not offended, nor do I think you are "WRONG WRONG WRONG" or anything, just enjoying the lively debate. Just to clarify, my slightly lower opinion on Watanabe's version isn't based on "art style" if you mean the visual designs of the characters. Honestly, I've read so many thousands of comics with so many different art styles that it's not the visual style that defines whether or not I like the art but whether the artist can harness his style to tell the story at hand. To me, Watanabe's style is a little too hyperactive, and misses the softer notes that, in my opinion, amplify the mood of this particular story. Watanabe's style would work great on an over-the-top, Love Hina-style romantic comedy, but to me, that's not really what Train_Man is.
My home computer and internet connection aren't all that dependable, so digging up a fansub somewhere is pretty much out of my realm of possibility. But man, Misaki Ito is GORGEOUS.... I bet she makes a great Kyoko. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I don't consider it as much of a weakness simply because I view it more as a "standard" of many anime/manga. In many anime/manga I'd say age is only definable as a comparative feature. Look at Gall Force, the characters all look relatively young (maybe early twenties) but I wouldn't place them really young until the OLDER character gets introduced later and she doesn't look more than maybe 30s, making the rest young by comparison. Altho, to be fair to myself, no doubt my entire view on that is totally destroyed now as I'm a fan of Negima which has a class that are all SUPPOSED to be comparable ages but has characters who could look to range anywhere from 8 to 20s (and I think they're all SUPPOSED to be like 14 or something).
After looking back at it again last night, I can understand that, altho I think it is MAINLY the "online" portions and I just sort of "skim" those visually as I know they are online discussion. One thing I do think Watanabe's version falters in (with respect to the story) is a large part of why I got into it in the first place. The whole reason I felt I HAD to see this show was a screencap from an episode with a caption explaining that it was Densha admitting to Hermes that he is an otaku (and in the screen cap he was showing her his room). Unfortunately, Watanabe's manga all but glosses that over in favor of his lack of social ability. While the latter is definitely a cause for his problems and not focusing on the former probably makes the story more accessible, to an extent, it loses an interesting feature. Does Hara's version have more focus on that? Since I have seen the tv drama, the loss isn't as important to me, but I think it is unfortunate. I think I can ascribe my own feel to it because of how it relates to the tv drama, rather than seeing it cold so most of the "touching" feel still comes through to me. I think Watanabe does a good job imparting Densha's "earnestness" and nervousness throughout. It possibly goes a little overboard with that at points, and I wish there was more effort to put his character in the "akiba" context, but *shrug* For an anime fan, I'd say the TV drama is better in that "Otaku no Video"/Genshiken kinda way, but Watanabe's captures the essence (for me) even if not the "nods" and details of the other. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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That particular aspect, they're about the same. Like you said, I think it's done to try and keep the story more universal (everyone can be shy, after all), but it's not completely glossed over either. That element is completely non-existant in Ocha's shojo version, though. Her version makes Densha out to be a dreamboat who just really needed a haircut. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Hey Jason,
I got a chance to flip through vol. 3 of "Train Man" ("Densha Otoko" v. 3 isn't due till next month). I'm afraid any idea of me supporting this series died with this volume. I wasn't partial to the way Hara was presenting the story in the early going, but I simply can't support his version considering spoiler[he had Densha give up being an otaku and NOT rescind that decision, ever] to me that is unforgiveable and completely in opposition to building a lasting relationship. Hopefully "Densha Otoko" will not have a similar situation, and the first two volumes (to me) indicate that this will not be the case. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Whoa, seriously? YIKES. That's....that's not in the spirit of the story at ALL. I've gotta look into this..... |
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Asako
 Posts: 751 Location: Hawaii |
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I'll have to snatch up that novel version too since it sounds very promising 
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Well, the novel is the original version of the story, so it's got the odds in its favor. 
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Yeah, considering how the series was being written I was wondering if Hara was going to go that way so when I saw it happen early on in the book, I skimmed through it to see if it was just another hurdle, but it doesn't appear to be. Please let me know if you read it differently, but to me, the end reads like: spoiler[Densha's fandom is one of those "youthful joys" that he gives up in order to "grow up" and have an adult relationship... or something. He takes a VERY small number of toys that have special "sentimental value" and puts them in a box that he leaves under his bed (never seen again) and gives away the rest to his geek friends (who never meet Hermes near as I can tell). The series ends with Hermes and Densha later on looking at the old channel/thread and laughing at what a geek he USED TO BE (or at least how awkward he was socially)] But I was just skimming, so again, let me know if you read it differently. |
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