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Hey, Answerman: On Strike!


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14396
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:33 am Reply with quote
Quote:
She loves to cook and clean!


So there aren't women who enjoy cooking and cleaning? That's sort of the inherent problem with feminism today. Ideally, women should be allowed to make their own choices, but they can only make choices which are politically correct, or they're considered traitors.

Quote:
Her eye never wanders toward other men!


Other men don't really respect her like Keiichi, though.

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She supports Keichi no matter how badly he screws up!


So does Laura Bush. What's your point?

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Heck, she doesn't even argue with him!


Perhaps, but he tolerates her crazy friends and family, and no one questions his sanity.

Quote:
To me, she's basically the idealized 1950's housewife stereotype, a hoary old cliche leftover from the days when gender politics were swept under the rug and females were still considered second-class citizens.


Except that she actually takes care of herself without the help of a man more than those housewives.

Quote:
Hell, just look at the heroines in common shonen anime - Nami in One Piece,


A dishonest gold-digger is your ideal woman?

Quote:
Sakura or Tsunade in Naruto,


So a chick who gets into fights with another girl over a guy and gets captured more than she takes care of herself is a role model? And Tsunade is more qualified than many of the male ninjas, but opts for a supporting role.

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any of the girls in Bleach -


Most of the girls in Bleach get beat down or groped. Either that, or they're over-bearing.

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Escaflowne is a good example of a show with a solid female lead, as is the Ghibli film Only Yesterday.


I agree with you on Escaflowne, but, even though I love Only Yesterday, the verdict is still out on whether the latter character's a "solid" female lead, since she clearly has trouble being decisive.
I would say the little girl in the Yamadas seemed a lot more assertive.

Quote:
To be totally honest, the movie costumes - like Darth Vader or Jack Sparrow - don't phase me at all. The "internet joke" costumes on the other hand make me roll my eyes. Normally it's because people are dressing up like the O RLY owl or Chuck Norris months and months and in some cases years after what they're cosplaying as has ceased to be funny or amusing or even relevant.


The "wonders" of Chuck Norris never gets old. Rolling Eyes
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thedragon



Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 am Reply with quote
You lazy...! Just kidding. I wasn't keeping up with Answerman during the Nymphet wars so I never saw that answer. It was actually Answerman that made me curious about the manga enough to read it with the "no more Jikan questions" remark in some of the opening dialogues. I knew there was a lot of backlash when Seven Seas tested the market with the title, but after reading it I could sort of understand why.

Jikan fans don't get me wrong, I love this manga. I laugh so much whenever I read it and Kaworu Watashiya is getting deeper and deeper into the emotional pit she has created by the chapter. On the other hand, I really don't believe this should be released over here. It's the match that ignites the fire. It's not sexual, and yet there's enough of a sexual tone to make most people just a little creeped out (there are a few scenes, especially in chapter 17, that would make quite a few people send hate mail).

The problem I had with the answer Zac originally gave was that he compared it to the hardcore gay porn. There is absolutely nothing wrong with gay porn. Gay people have the right to gay manga as much as straight people have the right to our kind of manga. The line between gay porn and loli is far, far away. Loli is unforgiveable. I am on the side that anyone who touches a minor should be thrown away for life. But, the way I keep myself from being a complete hypocrite since I do enjoy KnJ is the same excuse Seven Seas used so they could realease the first five chapters: the love interest of the teacher is not the third grader. He pushes Rin away (not as hard as he should but he does), and tries not to get trapped in her schemes.

In the end, I do recommend Kodomo no Jikan to anyone with an open mind. To Zac, I think you should start thinking that Americans are a lot more advanced about homosexuals than you thought they were whenever you wrote that answer.
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:14 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Quote:
She loves to cook and clean!


So there aren't women who enjoy cooking and cleaning? That's sort of the inherent problem with feminism today. Ideally, women should be allowed to make their own choices, but they can only make choices which are politically correct, or they're considered traitors.

Quote:
Her eye never wanders toward other men!


Other men don't really respect her like Keiichi, though.

Quote:
She supports Keichi no matter how badly he screws up!


So does Laura Bush. What's your point?

Quote:
Heck, she doesn't even argue with him!


Perhaps, but he tolerates her crazy friends and family, and no one questions his sanity.

Quote:
To me, she's basically the idealized 1950's housewife stereotype, a hoary old cliche leftover from the days when gender politics were swept under the rug and females were still considered second-class citizens.


Except that she actually takes care of herself without the help of a man more than those housewives.

Quote:
Hell, just look at the heroines in common shonen anime - Nami in One Piece,


A dishonest gold-digger is your ideal woman?

Quote:
any of the girls in Bleach -


Most of the girls in Bleach get beat down or groped. Either that, or they're over-bearing.


He never said women aren't allowed to be loyal and enjoy cooking or cleaning or anything else. It's just that these are typically features of the woman repressed by society. That's all.

Nami is a strong independent woman that can clearly take care of herself. You're emphasizing the wrong part of her personality to skew his argument and make Zac's answer look stupid.

I agree with you about the women of Bleach, mostly. It seems like many of them are just there to be eye candy and never get any real character development. I can see how Rukia might classify, though I personally hate her personality (actually, I dislike Nami's as well).

I'm not sure I can see how this conversation could have happened without one mentioning Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. I mean, other than the ridiculously slutty outfits, she's probably one of the strongest women in anime.

I had no qualms with the original response to the Nymphet letter. Some things just shouldn't exist, and in my opinion, that's one of them.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 708
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:27 am Reply with quote
Belldandy is tolerable in context because the context of AMG is "drenched in so many different varieties and approaches to femininity -- all 'validated' in-text -- that there's really no point keeping track of them all".

Indeed, you could probably make a decent fist of arguing that by not being either a hyper-competent techhead or ninja-stripper-nun-vampire or vile-tempered proto-tsundere or whatever, AMG was actually somewhat progressive for its time, maybe even now ["hey, girls! you've got lots of options, one -- and only one -- of which is staying at home cooking for your man"].

But it's the first point that counts.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14396
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:37 am Reply with quote
Cowboy:
Quote:
He never said women aren't allowed to be loyal and enjoy cooking or cleaning or anything else. It's just that these are typically features of the woman repressed by society.


Yes, they're on the same level as women who get whipped for being raped... Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Nami is a strong independent woman that can clearly take care of herself.


If she could, then she wouldn't let the guys do all the work.

nargun:
Quote:
"hey, girls! you've got lots of options, one -- and only one -- of which is staying at home cooking for your man"


But Belldandy doesn't just stay at home. And unlike Barbie, I actually can believe she's a rocket scientist.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7271
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:38 am Reply with quote
I may catch hell for saying this, expecially as I am a guy, but I don't really care all that much if female characters are positive, progressive, etc. Don't get me wrong. I do still want good characters. Moe characters are rarely good characters. However, just because a character isn't some great progressive role-model doesn't make them a bad character either. Sorry, but I want to enjoy anime first, having it set a postivie example or whatever is secondary to me.


When it comes to artists alley, I see it as a non-issue. They can think they're entitled to it if they want. When these people start producing "merchandise" that is the caliber of actual licenced stuff, then I will see it as a problem. As long as it remains simple, drawn pictures of characters or other stuff people could easilly potentially also make themselves, its just doesn't really matter.
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Anatticus101



Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:48 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Quote:
She loves to cook and clean!


So there aren't women who enjoy cooking and cleaning? That's sort of the inherent problem with feminism today. Ideally, women should be allowed to make their own choices, but they can only make choices which are politically correct, or they're considered traitors.

Quote:
Her eye never wanders toward other men!


Other men don't really respect her like Keiichi, though.

Quote:
She supports Keichi no matter how badly he screws up!


So does Laura Bush. What's your point?

Quote:
Heck, she doesn't even argue with him!


Perhaps, but he tolerates her crazy friends and family, and no one questions his sanity.

Quote:
To me, she's basically the idealized 1950's housewife stereotype, a hoary old cliche leftover from the days when gender politics were swept under the rug and females were still considered second-class citizens.


Except that she actually takes care of herself without the help of a man more than those housewives.

Quote:
Hell, just look at the heroines in common shonen anime - Nami in One Piece,


A dishonest gold-digger is your ideal woman?

Quote:
Sakura or Tsunade in Naruto,


So a chick who gets into fights with another girl over a guy and gets captured more than she takes care of herself is a role model? And Tsunade is more qualified than many of the male ninjas, but opts for a supporting role.

Quote:
any of the girls in Bleach -


Most of the girls in Bleach get beat down or groped. Either that, or they're over-bearing.



I do not think he was saying or implying that sakura, tsunade or any of the Bleach girls is an ideal girl for him. He did say
Quote:
Don't get me wrong; Oh My Goddess! is a decent show, but I don't enjoy it because I'm secretly in love with a cartoon character.


You seem to be defending Belldandy, but she is a very unrealistic women. Sure there are women who love to cook clean etc. But I do not think theres a person out there like Belldandy. I mean if you like your women to be obdeiant, celaning and cooking for you at home. Then, thats prerrty damn sexist, get your head out of the 50s. Its very hard to beleive theres any women like that left in any modernized country. Belldandy is flawless, she's pretty much perfect. And in real life nobodys perfect.

I like my lead characters to be more realistic and I could live without this "moe". Falling in love or feeling this "moe" for a girl in a anime, thats really weird, kind of disturbing really. Honestly this anime/manga community is the only community im really a "part of" but it is also one of the weirdest.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:52 am Reply with quote
Quote:
You seem to be defending Belldandy, but she is a very unrealistic women. Sure there are women who love to cook clean etc. But I do not think theres a person out there like Belldandy. I mean if you like your women to be obdeiant, celaning and cooking for you at home. Then, thats prerrty damn sexist, get your head out of the 50s. Its very hard to beleive theres any women like that left in any modernized country. Belldandy is flawless, she's pretty much perfect. And in real life nobodys perfect.


Sorry buddy but she is realistic. Now that doesn't mean that personality type is in the majority, it isn't. But that doesn't change the fact it is a real personality type for many women. I find it easy to see there's women still like that. Some by choice and upbringing and some by....other means.
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musashi1600



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 198
Location: Hawaii
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:57 am Reply with quote
My answer to the Kajiura vs. Kanno debate: Kou Ootani pwns 'em both. (Feel free to ignore this extension of my inner Haibane Renmei fanboy.)

I'd also like to thank you for re-answering the Nymphet letter. I won't say you didn't deserve the outcry for your first response, but I will say you have the right to hold your opinion on the title, and I (hopefully others too) can live with that.
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:02 am Reply with quote
musashi1600 wrote:
My answer to the Kajiura vs. Kanno debate: Kou Ootani pwns 'em both. (Feel free to ignore this extension of my inner Haibane Renmei fanboy.)

I'd also like to thank you for re-answering the Nymphet letter. I won't say you didn't deserve the outcry for your first response, but I will say you have the right to hold your opinion on the title, and I (hopefully others too) can live with that.


You may not say it but I will say he didn't deserve the outcry for his first response. Considering people' took his responses and hailed him as the anti-loli president. I mean some of these people wanted him to resign over a personal opinion which is rather immature honestly, considering as you said we should all be allowed our opinions right?. And unless I'm mistaken Zac never insulted anyone specifically for liking the show or watching it. He may have criticized the show but that's different. Personally I wish people would just shut up about the damn title. It's over and done with and there's many more loli titles for people out there so why the fuss over one damn show? Get on with your lives and at least start the loli debate with a new title next time.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2617
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:26 am Reply with quote
Let's be to the point.

I feel you had a huge part in the Nymphet scandel. But honestly, I blame Seven Seas more for not looking at thier titles they purchased, and for not doing what they should have done.

They could have released it via online only. They could have had it put in the porn sections in book stores that people under 18 can't enter.

They didn't do anything but back out. They need to grow a pair and due to that I will never buy any of their products.

Yeah, i'm still pissed.
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Paludis



Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:29 am Reply with quote
psycho 101 wrote:
You may not say it but I will say he didn't deserve the outcry for his first response. Considering people' took his responses and hailed him as the anti-loli president. I mean some of these people wanted him to resign over a personal opinion which is rather immature honestly, considering as you said we should all be allowed our opinions right?. And unless I'm mistaken Zac never insulted anyone specifically for liking the show or watching it. He may have criticized the show but that's different. Personally I wish people would just shut up about the damn title. It's over and done with and there's many more loli titles for people out there so why the fuss over one damn show? Get on with your lives and at least start the loli debate with a new title next time.

I think you've missed the point. KnJ fans don't give a shit about his "personal opinion", the problem is that he went out of his way to try and deny people of what they wanted and what they wanted hurt no one.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14396
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:33 am Reply with quote
Anatticus:
Quote:
I mean if you like your women to be obdeiant, celaning and cooking for you at home. Then, thats prerrty damn sexist,


But she's not "obedient". She's a take-charge kind of person who chooses to be reserved.

Quote:
get your head out of the 50s. Its very hard to beleive theres any women like that left in any modernized country.


There are plenty of stay-at-home wives and mothers left nowadays. There's nothing immoral or degrading about them, either. If they find fulfillment in being a nurturer, rather than a office worker, it doesn't automatically mean they're setting "the movement" back to the Stone Age. It just means they deserve as much respect for their work as Erin Brokovich.

Quote:
Belldandy is flawless, she's pretty much perfect. And in real life nobodys perfect.


She's a goddess, though.
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JackCox



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:36 am Reply with quote
About Damn time someone told it like it is with regard to female characters, I don't like weak female leads, and even with regard to Haruhi Suzumiya, I just hated Haruhi.

I'll tell you what the best show with Strong Female Leads are, Red Garden, they portray the lead females as flawed individuals but people who eventually face the music and toughen it out, despite the fact they are going through hell.

Strong female leads are important, women like Mylene Hoffman in 009-1, may have a strong sexual side, but she also is a high-ranking agent in an secret organization and she is not afraid to do what it takes to get the job done.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:41 am Reply with quote
Paludis wrote:
psycho 101 wrote:
You may not say it but I will say he didn't deserve the outcry for his first response. Considering people' took his responses and hailed him as the anti-loli president. I mean some of these people wanted him to resign over a personal opinion which is rather immature honestly, considering as you said we should all be allowed our opinions right?. And unless I'm mistaken Zac never insulted anyone specifically for liking the show or watching it. He may have criticized the show but that's different. Personally I wish people would just shut up about the damn title. It's over and done with and there's many more loli titles for people out there so why the fuss over one damn show? Get on with your lives and at least start the loli debate with a new title next time.

I think you've missed the point. KnJ fans don't give a shit about his "personal opinion", the problem is that he went out of his way to try and deny people of what they wanted and what they wanted hurt no one.


How did he do that eh? By posting his personal opinions? You make it sound like he personally called the industry heads he had to to get this canceled all on his own. Give me a break. And I think the problem is the KnJ fans, most not all, didn't give a shit about anything beyond the title itself. They didn't care for the most part about the fact people might find it questionable, including the company releasing it here. Zac just made a handy scapegoat when the title got canceled because of his personal opinions.
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