×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Zegapain DVD 1


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chrisb
Subscriber



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 614
Location: USA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:05 am Reply with quote
That's too bad, I actually really enjoyed the series. It was probably the only mecha I'll ever really enjoy. I love how the focus is more on the characters and their interactions/relationships/romances and not the mecha battles. As for the music, I absolutely loved the opening and ending themes, they were beautiful and I don't say that about anime songs much. Although the mecha battles, I'll agree weren't the best, do get better as the series progresses. I think people should stick with the series for a while as it develops its characters into very memorable ones, I loved it from the start but it was one of my favorite 2006 series by the end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Randall Miyashiro



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2451
Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:05 am Reply with quote
Thank goodness that I;m not the only one who really didn't like this DVD. At first I was a tad weary since this series has a decent score on the ANN Encyclopedia. When I got around to watching it Ihad to break up my viewing of the DVD into three sittings. This is really sad since I love mecha shows.

I didn't have as many issues with the art or animation, although it wasn't enough to save this DVD for me. I'm really glad that the second DVD isn't set until December so I didn't pre-order it yet. The worst thing is watching a terrible DVD only to realize that you already pre-ordered the next two volumes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
LordPrometheus





PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:57 am Reply with quote
Quote:
At first I was a tad weary


I think you mean "wary", meaning "cautious", as opposed to "weary", meaning "tired, worn out". Wink

I see that mis-usage of the word frequently on teh Intarwebz, and I really don't understand how people make that mistake.

Anyway, as far as the DVD is concerned, I will definitely be avoiding this one. Thanks. Razz
Back to top
Caiobrz



Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:13 am Reply with quote
It's very rare for something to annoy me as much as this poor attempt of a review did. I usually work on the assumption that ANN staff, by now, realized that the first episodes of a long series (20+ is long enough, but it can also happen with smaller series) are often just dragging around to introduce the characters, the basic premisse of the plot, and the enviroment in which, LATER, will kick in the plot.

Yes these episodes are plain and boring, they show only repeating pointless battles and get us to know only the shallow surfaces of the characters, but it is called character development. They evolve, they change, we eventually see them shinning. Do we expect that to happen on the first episode, or DVD? NO.

Also, most of ANN review for this DVD focuses in the character design and animation as if it meant ANYTHING. Fantastic Children is fantastic, yet has an horrid design and animation. Wind Tales feature the worst art you can get, but it's contents are far worth it. I am all for warning the audience of poor visual quality, but judging and even whinning that the female lead who was "supposed to be pretty" isn't ... in a CARTOON ... is childish. I could go all the way and say all female characters are ugly compared to the real human thing. I think the females at this title are pretty enough, but that's still not important as to start drawing comparisions with other titles as if ZEGAPAIN DVD BOX had something like "the pretties character design ever". It does not, so why bother? artwork was never the seeling point on this title, or Fantastic Children, or Wind Tales, or most plot-driven anime. If it comes with nice visuals, all the better, it's a bonus.

Zegapain is not trying to find an excuse to use mecha. In fact, the mecha battles are secondary once the plot kicks in. It's not trying to mimic Matrix (and if it were, by God it's way better than the 'we are duracell' cliché). The art is not good and production is low-budget but last time I checked, what bring people to a title like this is the plot not framerate. Sure some people are all about the looks, but than, go for plotless dating-sim or ecchi titles, not this. It seams that ANN staff suffers from "everything is a copy of Evangelion", as if all titles in the infinite future will be a copy of Eva, or inspired on it, or whatever. Is it important? picture someone watching Zegapain as their first mecha title and you will be able to answer it for yourself.

I really urge people to wait and see. I'm sure ANN reviews for upcomming DVD's will start to increase the ratings, we might even get a "mea culpa" latter on (unlikelly). It might not be a A+ last DVD, but as a whole, Zegapain excells from the sea of mediocrity seen latelly in anime and shines as one of the best mecha titles I ever watched. Yes it did not hook me on the first couple of episodes, but it did once I got to know what was going on, what drives the characters and all the enviroment and setting that is, presently at this DVD, only being presented .. with little detail in fact - as expected, you don't give all the plot mysteries in the first settlement.

JUDGING A BOOK BY IT'S COVER IS INNAPROPRIATE, thus, judging a title PLOT by it's first 20% run is as dumb as saying a book is boring after reading one page (and also whinning the font used in the publication is not pretty). Some titles take up to 50% it's airtime before getting real. And unless you want to use this title to turn you on into your perverted fetiche, I don't think it's important if the character design is not in par with the latest dating-sim flick. Some hentai have worst art and still sell.

This is a very poor review and people should not judge the whole series based on one DVD, or a biased childish review that, clearly, can't see or wait what is ahead.

Quote:
...At first I was a tad weary since this series has a decent score on the ANN Encyclopedia...


Yes, it does tell you something doesn't it, perhaps the fact that those scores are based on the WHOLE, not on the first 5 episodes?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Westlo



Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:24 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Yes, it does tell you something doesn't it, perhaps the fact that those scores are based on the WHOLE, not on the first 5 episodes?


Yeah people only rate shows when they're finished airing, Clannad isn't in the top 10 with 89 votes after only 3 out of 24 episodes have aired... *whistles*

Quote:
Some titles take up to 50% it's airtime before getting real


And a lot of titles manage to do this without being as crap and boring as Zegapain is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Brians9824



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 281
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:51 am Reply with quote
Well this is a review of the FIRST dvd. If its pretty crappy first dvd then it deserves a crappy score. Sure the story evolves and changes I use My-Hime as a good example of this of a drastic story chage. They managed to keep the pacing to the point where you don't have a dvd full of garbage though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime
W-General



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Ithaca, NY, USA / Taichung, Taiwan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:29 am Reply with quote
Randall Miyashiro wrote:
Thank goodness that I;m not the only one who really didn't like this DVD. At first I was a tad weary since this series has a decent score on the ANN Encyclopedia. When I got around to watching it Ihad to break up my viewing of the DVD into three sittings. This is really sad since I love mecha shows.

I didn't have as many issues with the art or animation, although it wasn't enough to save this DVD for me. I'm really glad that the second DVD isn't set until December so I didn't pre-order it yet. The worst thing is watching a terrible DVD only to realize that you already pre-ordered the next two volumes.


Don't worry. I promise that you won't regret having pre-ordered the next two volumes. Because they're absolutely amazing.

That's the thing about Zegapain. It's such a slow series - first 5 episodes doesn't tell you anything about what the series is about. When I first watched episode 1, it was so boring that I did not come back to touch it for 5 months. I would understand if someone gave it a poor rating for disc 1 alone - can't blame the reviewer, because I made the same mistake too.

However, if disc 1 is a C, then the overall series is A. That's how good the entire series is...except things doesn't start happening until like, disc 2 and 3. Really I thought the "turning point" when it changed from "OK" to "amazing" was around episode 9 or 10 haha...

Zegapain is one of those things that makes me think how people need to re-consider the way they look at a series. Usually it's "don't judge a series by the first episode"...well, episode 2 3 4 5 of Zegapain won't do you any good. It's more like "Don't judge a series by the first disc" LOL.

I mean, as long as this reviewer does not try to write-off the entire series based on the first disc alone, then I am generally OK with what he/she has to say. Because the first volume is really boring...although I am extremely happy that my volume 1 arrived in the mail today Very Happy

Can't wait for vol 2 and 3 to come in the mail too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Caiobrz



Joined: 24 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:39 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Yeah people only rate shows when they're finished airing, Clannad isn't in the top 10 with 89 votes after only 3 out of 24 episodes have aired... *whistles*


Yes, it's silly to review Clannad based on 3 episodes isn't it, but than tell me something, how come Zegapain rates are so high than? either (A) people liked the first episodes better than we think, or (B) people rated it based on the whole title (which dates back more than one year).

In both scenarios, my point is still proven.

Again, people should wait for the whole before judging, I agree people should not rate something incomplete such as Clannad, and I bet there are some low ratings on that Zegapain stats from people who rated based only on this DVD ... and even after that, the averate is high, curious huh?

First episode/DVD reviews should focus in the DVD content, not on the whole series.

Quote:
And a lot of titles manage to do this without being as crap and boring as Zegapain is.


And some titles are amazing at first and get crappy latter, which FURTHER proves the importance of rating and judging stuff by WHOLE and not PART.

Quote:
as long as this reviewer does not try to write-off the entire series based on the first disc alone, then I am generally OK with what he/she has to say


Very true.
You pointed two very good arguments which further show how lame this first DVD review is, thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:36 pm Reply with quote
Caiobrz wrote:
It's very rare for something to annoy me as much as this poor attempt of a review did. I usually work on the assumption that ANN staff, by now, realized that the first episodes of a long series (20+ is long enough, but it can also happen with smaller series) are often just dragging around to introduce the characters, the basic premisse of the plot, and the enviroment in which, LATER, will kick in the plot.

Yes these episodes are plain and boring, they show only repeating pointless battles and get us to know only the shallow surfaces of the characters, but it is called character development. They evolve, they change, we eventually see them shinning. Do we expect that to happen on the first episode, or DVD? NO.

Also, most of ANN review for this DVD focuses in the character design and animation as if it meant ANYTHING. Fantastic Children is fantastic, yet has an horrid design and animation. Wind Tales feature the worst art you can get, but it's contents are far worth it. I am all for warning the audience of poor visual quality, but judging and even whinning that the female lead who was "supposed to be pretty" isn't ... in a CARTOON ... is childish. I could go all the way and say all female characters are ugly compared to the real human thing. I think the females at this title are pretty enough, but that's still not important as to start drawing comparisions with other titles as if ZEGAPAIN DVD BOX had something like "the pretties character design ever". It does not, so why bother? artwork was never the seeling point on this title, or Fantastic Children, or Wind Tales, or most plot-driven anime. If it comes with nice visuals, all the better, it's a bonus.

Zegapain is not trying to find an excuse to use mecha. In fact, the mecha battles are secondary once the plot kicks in. It's not trying to mimic Matrix (and if it were, by God it's way better than the 'we are duracell' cliché). The art is not good and production is low-budget but last time I checked, what bring people to a title like this is the plot not framerate. Sure some people are all about the looks, but than, go for plotless dating-sim or ecchi titles, not this. It seams that ANN staff suffers from "everything is a copy of Evangelion", as if all titles in the infinite future will be a copy of Eva, or inspired on it, or whatever. Is it important? picture someone watching Zegapain as their first mecha title and you will be able to answer it for yourself.

I really urge people to wait and see. I'm sure ANN reviews for upcomming DVD's will start to increase the ratings, we might even get a "mea culpa" latter on (unlikelly). It might not be a A+ last DVD, but as a whole, Zegapain excells from the sea of mediocrity seen latelly in anime and shines as one of the best mecha titles I ever watched. Yes it did not hook me on the first couple of episodes, but it did once I got to know what was going on, what drives the characters and all the enviroment and setting that is, presently at this DVD, only being presented .. with little detail in fact - as expected, you don't give all the plot mysteries in the first settlement.

JUDGING A BOOK BY IT'S COVER IS INNAPROPRIATE, thus, judging a title PLOT by it's first 20% run is as dumb as saying a book is boring after reading one page (and also whinning the font used in the publication is not pretty). Some titles take up to 50% it's airtime before getting real. And unless you want to use this title to turn you on into your perverted fetiche, I don't think it's important if the character design is not in par with the latest dating-sim flick. Some hentai have worst art and still sell.

This is a very poor review and people should not judge the whole series based on one DVD, or a biased childish review that, clearly, can't see or wait what is ahead.

Quote:
...At first I was a tad weary since this series has a decent score on the ANN Encyclopedia...


Yes, it does tell you something doesn't it, perhaps the fact that those scores are based on the WHOLE, not on the first 5 episodes?


Your book analogy only works if the book is like...5 or 6 pages long. Normally, if you read 20% of a book, and you don't like the author's style or the characters or the plot, why the hell would you keep reading?

The same applies to anime. The review also mentioned the fact that the main characters are archetypes and that the plot is uninteresting. If there's nothing else going on in the series, why should anyone watch it? The fact that the series has bland character designs and animation doesn't help. Believe what you will but part of the score of the series as a whole is in the animation quality, so just deal with it.

You're clearly biased because you've seen the whole series and think it's fabulous. You have to understand that, even if MOST 26 episode series do improve from the beginning, that's no reason to rate the first DVD higher. The reviewer is rating these episodes, not the whole series, so give them a break.

What separates a great series from a slightly above average one like Zegapain is the fact that it can start off strong and maintain it til the end. Yeah, it gets better later on. That's why it's a worse series than Mushishi or Gankutsuou; those shows were interesting from the beginning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime
W-General



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Ithaca, NY, USA / Taichung, Taiwan
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:52 pm Reply with quote
On one hand, I think it is perfectly valid that a rating of "C-" is given to volume one. The review is about the first volume, and I think it is quite fitting.

I think the point that the people who enjoy the series, is...

For the reviewer: Should refrain from sentences that sounds like he/she has written off the entire series based on the first volume alone with stuff like
Quote:
Zegapain doesn't even deserve the epithet "escapism." In order to be escapism there needs to be something there to escape into; Zegapain is so utterly uninvolving that it leaves the mind completely unfettered, it's incapable even of distraction.


It would be wiser on the reviewer's part to clarify that the comments are for the first volume alone, or refrain from such strongly biased language.

For people who have not seen the series: Do not base your judgment on whether to purchase the series or not on this single volume. Wait and see what people has to say about the rest of the series - there has to be a reason why it's rated so highly.

Like many people have pointed out, there have been many series that started out fabulously and ended in mediocrity or disappointment. The opposite is also true.

If we are going to list series that are consistently great, it'd be better to list another mecha series...like Code Geass. I'd give every episode of Code Geass 10/10 with a straight face.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:03 pm Reply with quote
W-General wrote:
If we are going to list series that are consistently great, it'd be better to list another mecha series...like Code Geass. I'd give every episode of Code Geass 10/10 with a straight face.


Didn't much like Code Geass either, but that's just my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime
otacu



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:28 pm Reply with quote
There is really something wrong with this review. Zegapain is probably the most underrated series of 2006. The beginning is slow and not much interesting but later on it becomes NOTHING short than awesome. Really amazing... the characters, the plot, everything. Manly tears and epic moments.

One of the best mecha i've watched in years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6864
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:33 pm Reply with quote
The main reason I even know about this series is that it was spoken of very highly by our "dearly departed" friend iwatch2muchanime.
W-General wrote:
On one hand, I think it is perfectly valid that a rating of "C-" is given to volume one. The review is about the first volume, and I think it is quite fitting.

I think the point that the people who enjoy the series, is...

For the reviewer: Should refrain from sentences that sounds like he/she has written off the entire series based on the first volume alone with stuff like
Quote:
Zegapain doesn't even deserve the epithet "escapism." In order to be escapism there needs to be something there to escape into; Zegapain is so utterly uninvolving that it leaves the mind completely unfettered, it's incapable even of distraction.


It would be wiser on the reviewer's part to clarify that the comments are for the first volume alone, or refrain from such strongly biased language.

For people who have not seen the series: Do not base your judgment on whether to purchase the series or not on this single volume. Wait and see what people has to say about the rest of the series - there has to be a reason why it's rated so highly.

Like many people have pointed out, there have been many series that started out fabulously and ended in mediocrity or disappointment. The opposite is also true.

If we are going to list series that are consistently great, it'd be better to list another mecha series...like Code Geass. I'd give every episode of Code Geass 10/10 with a straight face.
You would think though, that people reading the review who haven't seen the series would understand that it's only a review of the first five episodes. It's only the ones who've seen the whole series that accuse the reviewers of making biased generalizations. Does ANN need to have a disclaimer, similar to the Season Previews, on every review saying "Disclaimer: This is only a review of the first X episodes of the series. The series has potential to get better, get worse, or stay the same in future episodes"? Apparently so, since we've been through this with Solty Rei Vol 1. (And later volume reviews of that series did register the improvement.)

I didn't see this as a "poor attempt of a review" because I felt that Carl backed up his opinions with solid evidence from the episodes on the disc. I don't plan on purchasing it at the moment, but I'd be willing to take a chance on the inevitable Anime Legends collection sometime down the road. I never did see this in fansubs, mainly because of bad things I'd heard about the fansubs themselves, not about the series. And the reviews from more fansub-based sites do show a lot of praise for Zegapain, which is why I'm not writing it off completely. But when it comes down to a decision to buy the initial DVDs, I'm more apt to trust the pros' reviews.
Quote:
Though there are plenty of little details to pick on, particularly the inconsistent pronunciation of names and Zegapain technobabble terminology, there are no glaring problems with the dub. The English version simply matches apathy for apathy, faithful in its reproduction of the original's boredom. The translation is similarly faithful, with the matching of lip-flaps accounting for the majority of the changes.
The dub studio on this project, Media Concepts, isn't very familiar to me. But I can see why Bandai gave them the job; they have experience on doing this "matching apathy for apathy" work in the past Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
LordPrometheus





PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Does ANN need to have a disclaimer, similar to the Season Previews, on every review saying "Disclaimer: This is only a review of the first X episodes of the series. The series has potential to get better, get worse, or stay the same in future episodes"? Apparently so, since we've been through this with Solty Rei Vol 1.


This is true; I'm glad I didn't take ANN's advice on the first DVD of Solty Rei; I saw the trailer first and thought it looked cool, so I rented it, and really liked it. In fact, Solty Rei has become one of my favorite series, period. If I'd listened to ANN, I would have missed an awesome show.

So in hindsight, I suppose I should at least check out Zegapain before writing it off. You guys talked me into it. Wink
Back to top
Randall Miyashiro



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2451
Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:49 pm Reply with quote
LordPrometheus wrote:

This is true; I'm glad I didn't take ANN's advice on the first DVD of Solty Rei; I saw the trailer first and thought it looked cool, so I rented it, and really liked it. In fact, Solty Rei has become one of my favorite series, period. If I'd listened to ANN, I would have missed an awesome show.

So in hindsight, I suppose I should at least check out Zegapain before writing it off. You guys talked me into it. Wink


This is why these follow up threads are nice. Solty Rei was indeed a series I might have wrote off after watching the first DVD had it not been for the numerous fans here. A couple of days ago Chris Gore from Film Threat has an interview on his Asian Underground (on G4's Attack of the show) on what's hot in Asian films.

"(Roy) is basically an anime version of Bruce Willis. He is the toughest guy with the grittiest exterior"

"The animation is gorgeous, the soundtrack is amazing... it ranks way up there with anything that has been brought to the States."

http://www.g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/blog/post/680149/Asian_Underground.html

As for Zegapain I needed that reassurance that the series does get better, and that the first disc is not a good representation of the series.

edit: changed paraphrases with quotes from the episode.


Last edited by Randall Miyashiro on Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group