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Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Under the Digital Big Top
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Goto page 1, 2 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
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justsomeaccount
 Posts: 553 |
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I must curate my social media feed way too well because I only learned about the show because of some images here and there without signs of controversy and following Dana Terrace which with her new project made me know Glitch Studios and hence the Digital Circus, and still didn't watch it or saw anything until I heard about the finale, the cinema strategy (and the dumb controversy around it) and some friends who went there, so I decided to watch it in one go and then see if there was a cinema close to me (there wasn't, so I waited 15 days to be on youtube, no drama whatsoever). So I enjoyed it all and all the fandom toxicity didn't touch me one bit aside of some friends warning to be cautious about it. In fact this was the first article where I read some specifics of the fandom's toxicity. Needless to say, this distance has probably made me enjoy casually the series without much problems, and I hope many people are that way. And that most of the fans are normal and engage with it with nice passion instead of the not-so-nice-people. Though now with the super ugly thing with the LADS' fandom I'm just wondering if it's even possible to not have a phenomenon series with such a fandom and it's just the way it is in this world (I know the different business models also are relevant to the discussion, but with Steven Universe, Undertale or whatever there's tons of examples of series with different models that yet produce a tiny but harmful fandom).
Oh, to add another thing in regards to the "there's two series, the real one and the one that play in their head and when they don't fit they get angry", I think that happens to most of us, because we don't see the whole picture until it's ended, only the path in front or behind us, so we have some expectations (even if they are just subconscious and pretty vague like "I will like it") so when they aren't accomplished, sometimes it's what you want in a good way, other times what you want but leaves you kinda eh, other times different but satisfying regardless, and the case here where you feel some "it could have been better", though oftenly you give it some time and you can focus on the whole picture better and abandon the what ifs in your head and judge better what it was without those feelings burning at all heat. It doesn't happen to me much with this one because I practically marathoned it before I could make some and I casually enjoyed it, but with other long running series I followed it's happened (for example for me, Chainsawman, Samurai Flamenco, etc.), and time gives you another perspective, which doesn't necessarily mean like, but it's less about venting your ego unfiltered without safety measures. |
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archy10
Posts: 38 |
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I believe the low-budget Psychicpebbles & Sr Pelo fish were a riff on Gaither's Pond rather than Freddi Fish. That's more up the "weird media" alley Gooseworx draws from.
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 5169 Location: New York |
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Most people will never have the problem that Gooseworx had, namely, "I wrote a very personal story and (judging by interviews she's given) one of these characters is clearly an allegory for the route I felt I was going down before I transitioned, but somehow it became a much bigger deal than I could have ever envisioned, got a very passionate fanbase, and made me the inadvertent face of this new trend of 'indie' artists." By her own words, she was never expecting to be the face of anything, much less an entire company.
There's a lot of conversations that can be had about Gooseworx and the Glitch Productions people in general, although surprisingly one of the big ones is one that doesn't have anything to do with the show itself - The metric tons of merchandise Glitch is selling of not just the Digital Circus (I have seen licensed Pomni plushies in malls) but of their other productions, since it remains the most effective way to actually fund their operation. This in turn has dug up the age-old "Selling merch is selling out" debate where everyone accuses the Glitch creators of being posers and not true "indie" talent. The more things change, huh? |
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justsomeaccount
Posts: 553 |
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I've certainly seen a lot of merchandising in their youtube channel, with customized videos with animation and the voice actors and all. And I certainly notice some of that "there's no high-above committee deciding the merchandising" because one recent was about spoiler[selling hybrid abstract versions of all the main characters, which never happens in the show] and I went "fudge, they know some of their public well!" and I can't see a normal committee approving that. I'm not into merchandising nor a big fan of the series, but if I was both I'd buy that in a heartbeat haha.
Anyway, indie labels or not or whatever, at the end of the day a studio and the right conditions for all of its employees to survive and be at ease in the longtime especially for many potential failed projects they could have (every studio has that risk regardless of the medium) is super expensive, and they're giving the series for free in youtube, so I completely get they have to use all of that to compensate, and while some may make you roll your eyes, for the most part it's relatively good-faith enough (problems with the merchandising endeavor as a concept in general in the world aside), so I'd say make use of that to survive as a studio since they have a hit in their hands. For example, The Game Kitchen's Blasphemous 1 is the one constanly saving the studio from some of the recent commercial failures, so it's logical they use it to keep afloat and keep trying new stuff and continuing making the job they love instead of failing once and be bankrupt. Though I think it's good to still check on their model to make sure it's not slowly morphing into something ugly, and reflections on "yes, this studio had a lucky break, but many don't so their strategy won't work to keep afloat". More well-leaning discussions than the "selling out" stuff. |
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Gem-Bug
 Posts: 1523 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada |
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Like other things, it was nice to get into TADC early and then just enjoy the episodes as they aired, without touching the ensuing fandom in any way. I thought the ending was fine.
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writerpatrick
 Posts: 699 Location: Canada |
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There's definately a '90s Saturday Morning influence on it. The characters seem to draw from shows like Reboot and Bump In the Night.
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Wyvern
 Posts: 1796 |
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You know, even from the early days you can get the sense that Gooseworx was apprehensive about her work becoming so popular. The first of the merch drop commercials (which are non-canon and usually feature the characters ignoring the fourth wall, something that thankfully doesn't happen on the actual show) was released after the pilot had racked up over 100 million views in a few weeks, and it has this little exchange of dialogue:
But to the show's credit, the story itself doesn't seem to have changed at all from Gooseworx's original vision, even though she was clearly very aware of the fandom and its expectations throughout production. It was always a personal, character-driven story spiced up with weird humor and an underlying sense of encroaching horror, and I think that's what made it so unique and successful, and why it'll likely be remembered and enjoyed long after most shows of its type have begun to feel dated. The paradox remains true: you get the most fans by ignoring what the fans want and just doing your own thing. (Seriously, though, Digital Circus is chock full of anime influence. Along with the stuff mentioned in the article, there's stuff like how one episode is called "Beach Episode" and spoiler[(for the first few minutes before it turns into something completely different)] it feels like a parody of anime filler episodes. Or the fact that the show has its own next episode preview music, which is directly based on "Peaceful Times," the famous next episode preview music from Evangelion (the Digital Circus version is called "Peacefuller Times.") |
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Zoltan Kakler
Posts: 107 |
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Same. All I ever saw of this show was the cancellation attempt where show fans went after JobbyTheHong who is a Transformer figure reviewer I watch who apparently cameo'd in the show because he was 'problematic' for making racist jokes and being into loli. Also heard the creator of the show and some of the VAs were attacked for saying racist jokes too as a result and apparently a lot of them like saying the N word. All I can comment is asking what do these creators and actors expect? If you make a Tumblr show aimed at a Tumblr audiences then of course you'll end up getting that Tumblr audience. Did everyone forget Stephen Universe and that cartoon fanbase eating their own?
That's the best way to engage with any media. "Fandom" is never worth it especially the fans who just do nothing but complain about a show not being what they envisioned in their head and then get mad when you don't interpret characters or storylines the way they do. Quicktip: is if you mute the terms 'larp' and 'media literacy' you filter out about 90% of those comments and people. |
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tuxedo-melvin
Posts: 57 |
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As a casual fan of TADC, all I'll say it I also thought the finale was a let down for multiple reasons spoiler[ brain scan reveal meaning they're not real, random off screen abstraction by Jax and the finale generally being a trauma dump dedicated towards him over anything else, sudden return and redemption for Caine, no real follow up on plotlines or closure to what the circus and the company behind it was and various abandoned plot points]
I think it's fine to be disappointed with the finale or show overall. I still liked it for the most part aside form the final episode. The characters were still fun up until the end One thing I will say is apparently you need to subscribe to the creator's social media feed to know any kind of detail since all the stuff I've been hearing lately is being done JK Rowling style of the creator saying and confirming things after the fact. Apparently people knew about Ribbit long before the final episode because of that. But I'm not into that style of storytelling though so unless there's a season 2 and all that stuff pops up in the show itself I'll just treat it as non-canon unless it's in the actual show which sadly means a lot of the characters will go underdeveloped and mysterious. |
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archy10
Posts: 38 |
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You don't actually need to read into social media. Ribbit was already alluded to many times starting in episode 5 (Jax running up to her crossed-out door, getting mad when Ragatha said he didn't have any more friends, etc.). All that was revealed about her in advance was her name. In fact, most of what Gooseworx revealed was either a tease for stuff that would be shown in the future, or clarification for what the show already inferred. I agree it's fine to be disappointed, but I also encourage you to look back on it out as what it is: a story about people dealing with sudden, jarringly bad situations completely beyond their control, whether it's being trapped forever in an unfamiliar world or spoiler[finding out a friend committed suicide]. |
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justsomeaccount
Posts: 553 |
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In my case honesty I had not many of those problems with the finale, I don't know any other details apart from what was shown and I didn't need to know beyond that, at least when you marathon it it didn't leave me hanging and the parts that were set aside in favor on focusing on others I thought were a deliberate choice that I respect.
spoiler[I respect the series didn't go to an epic plot heavy all characters heavily involved ending (there wouldn't be time to begin with) and it makes sense when the series is all about inevitabilty of your current situation and all episodes are primarily character focused over the mystery; it already felt like they weren't going to escape so that it's all revealed to be virtual clones as a matter of fact and as a way to show "you are here because you felt like it was the end of the world, but it isn't, you had a hopeful future back then and you can have it here" felt right to me (though it's true a little more detail about the world-building would have been less confusing, I was making some assumptions I wasn't sure the series thought we should have, but oh well). This small processing, healing and acceptance of their situation felt appropriate and satisfying to me. Now, I marathoned so I haven't been chewing on those mysteries and expectations, so my experience surely differs from others because of it. I remembered the character of Ribbit from the foreshadowing too (particularly a meaningful joyful photo between the two and that third one) and I felt it was well handled, in fact the little we know about her and her cheerful charming personality during the few lapses makes her doom more tragic. I felt most of the characters had their development mostly well defined to that point and given the focus of the story it made sense the final focus was on Jax, and I liked what I saw, all those scenes felt very raw and recognizable (my favorite scene in the show was the discussion between Pomni and Jax at the end of chapter 6, the harshness of engaging with someone so irony-spiked protected it's impossible to honestly engage despite the fun you had with them). The cut to Jax being already abstracted I also thought it was effective on conveying the sudenness of those moments, it's that kind of buildup-less cut that I like (though it can feel like the series took advantage to save some animation budget, I felt that a little haha). I agree though the Caine return and redemption was the least convincing part to me, it shows the necessary to make enough sense but it's not one that left me very convinced given his character, actions and development (and it's weird since the series commits so much to the inevitable consequences that he comes back like nothing), but at the same time I know the series also wants to be hopeful and not a complete bummer even with him and that he brings the last pieces of hope to the story, so I get why even if I found it kinda clunky.] Overall I thought, of all the possible choices you could take (of which I don't think barely any could have satisfied everybody) it took a consistent direction with what the series was and it's one I enjoyed. |
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Wyvern
Posts: 1796 |
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The reveal that spoiler[the characters came from brain scans doesn't mean they aren't real, it just means they aren't human. They were created from copies of the humans' consciousness, which means they are just as self-aware as those humans, they simply exist in a digital form rather than a physical one. Also the nature of the circus and its parent company were explained in episode 8. The silent sequence at the start is meant to illustrate how Cain broke out of confinement, absorbed the other AI,and built the circus based on images he had been programmed with. Then Kinger explains the rest in the episode.]
Those sorts of details are not storytelling. The story is on the screen. The stuff revealed on her social media are little random factoids that don't matter but are interesting to know. spoiler["Kaufmo's human counterpart is named Doug" is not in any way important to understanding Kaufmo, it's just a fun fact.] I think it's fine if you don't like the ending, but it's important not to miss the forest for the trees. |
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TheSeventhSense
 Posts: 179 |
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What exactly is a "Tumblr show"? Because I feel like a lot of the kids who are watching it will never know what Tumblr is. The parasocial behavior of insane fanbases crosses many websites. The behavior isn't the fault of the website; it's whatever's going wrong in these people's lives that putting this much stake in a cartoon, game, whatever is literally all they have. |
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RoboYuji
 Posts: 9 |
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Yeah, I avoid Twitter like the plague and haven't used Tumblr in years and years, so I never saw like 95% of Gooseworx' info comments on things, and I enjoyed and understood the show just fine. But I also don't care if I don't get an answer to every question, that's kind of just how life goes sometimes.
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2472 |
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My experience with the show also mirrored @justsomeaccount's; I was only tangentially aware of the show via a Pomni Nendo, of all things, caught it on Netflix a few months before the finale, blissfully unaware of any of the fandom or its drama, didn't feel like bothering with the cinema premiere, and saw the finale on my own time on Netflix. But I also feel like I got all of the context and messaging just fine? The only "confusing" scene for me was the mash-up scene of Caine's past and present melded into one scene, and I kind of muddled through it enough to get the gist of it anyhow.
All the other foreshadowing was done plenty, imo, and the off-screen moments were, I thought, plenty appropriate, given that we saw spoiler[Jax's near-abstraction] in detail during a previous episode, and given what it's meant to represent, do I really want to watch a character spoiler[commit suicide?] Not really. Maybe it's just the way I watched it, all at once rather than drip fed, but I think the fact that it makes sense and feels coherent is a sign that Gooseworx managed to pull off a solid show, even if I agree that not all the characters' arcs were handled with the same amount of deftness. Also, this is kind of an aside, but I'm so, SO DONE with this binary of real/not real crap. It's a prominent feature of another big media darling where people completely miss the point of that story's messaging too, and TADC is not trying to say that its characters don't matter because they "aren't real"; quite the opposite, in fact! It's saying these characters you've (hopefully) come to know and love over the course of the show STILL matter despite not being "real". |
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