Forum - View topicReasoning behind Dominion
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I was wondering why Dominion: Conflict 1 [No More Noise] isn't listed properly as a related manga on the Dominion Tank Police page?
The NA release for Conflict is listed, however the number of tankoubon still remains at one. The obvious solution to this would be to simply raise the number to two. However there is evidence to suggest that Conflict deserves it own page, and that that page should be listed under the related anime(manga) links at the top of the page. First, as it is written, Tank Police was written in 1985, while Conflict was written in 1995. With that in mind, the second becomes more important:
And indeed things are different. Some of the things right off the top of my head are:
Thirdly, Ghost in the Shell, and Ghost in the Shell 2 are excellent examples of the kind of thing that should happen between Tank Police and Conflict 1. Although personally I think it is a stretch to call GitS and GitS2 sequels, related would be better, but that is a matter of opinion I think. Either way, I think that those two are setup much more correctly. So I think one of those two things should be done (Changing the number of tankoubon, or create a second entry for Conflict). Personally, I think the second option would be the most accurate, but I think leaving it the way it is now, just wouldn't be in the spirit of the encyclopedia. I know everyone is busy, but please take this into consideration, and keep up the good work. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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By a strange coincidence, I put in an error report about the number of tankoubon just yesterday. It's also worth noting that the entry still appears as "Dominion Tank Police" but that should now be an alternate title since Dark Horse now publishes this work as "Dominion" (and I'm under the impression that in the ANN encyclopedia the official current North American title trumps all others). |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Yes, but the way the encyclopedia is setup it can handle multiple linked main names, such as the Japanese and English names. Not sure how that should be handled now, but what you suggested sounds good. While the second one can have Conflict 1 tagged on. To be honest, I am more interested it what you thought about what I wrote after the part that you quoted. Or in short, do you think that these two books should be handled in the a similar manner as the two Ghost in the Shell manga? Or was my analysis completely off? |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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I don't see any problem with your analysis of Dominion but I've not yet got round to reading Ghost In The Shell so I can't really comment on how analogous it is. Frankly, I'd be equally happy with Dominion split into two entries as you suggest or left as it is but with the book count altered (if only because I suspect most people approach No More Noise as if it were a sequal, even if it isn't supposed to be). Incidentally, your post made me look up Appleseed and Ghost In The Shell 2 and both of those have wrong tankoubon counts as well. Appleseed is listed as having 4 tankoubons (whereas I think it's actually 6) and GitS 2 is listed as having 1 tankoubon (but, with GitS 1.5 Human-Error Processor, it's actually 2). |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I agree that people do approach it that way. However, once you actually read(which I figure you have) the two decade apart books, it becomes apparent that they deserve to be rated separately. I know I don't want to rate them together anyway.
The problem with that is that I'm not sure if it was ever released in tankoubon format in Japan. That might have something to do with it. Don't quote me on that though. Taking GitS and GitS 2, they are almost completly different, 1.5 is the glue that holds them together, albeit loosely. But I agree it does belong on the GitS 2 side. |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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I have read No More Noise but it was years and years ago (the old flipped edition) and I don't honestly remember it all that clearly. I plan to buy the more recent edition in the next few weeks. Anyhow, like I said, I think your idea to split the entry in two is perfectly reasonable.
I think you're probably right but the encyclopedia is supposed to go with the US release (if there is one) rather than the Japanese release details. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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I'll look into the problem, but before then I'd like to clarify something:
Negative. Japanese releases exist no matter they get licensed in US or not, and the field is "number of tankoubon," not "number of pamphlet or whatnot." The main title follows the licensed English title just because it would be easier to find with alphabetical lists, especially to most users of this site who possess no knowledge about the Japanese language. Furthermore, while recent US releases are superficially identical to the Japanese counterpart (unflipped, same number of tankoubon, etc.), those early titles (sci-fi adventure with lots of actions e.g. Masamune Shirow's works in particular, for they were less "foreign" to most American comic fans) were released in flipped pamphlets or other thinner forms (example). |
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Moomintroll
Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Okay. Thanks for the clarification.
It might be nice if there was a way of adding different volume counts for different licenses (or even different editions in the same language if there's a change in number) but, then again, I don't suppose it's really all that important. |
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woelfie
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 380 Location: Belgium |
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Another solution would be to just use the total number of pages.
No more messing with different edition, languages or whatever (see the Maison Ikkoku releases page for an example what different editions might give - note that the latest US edition in 15 volumes is not yet included there). And as a side-effect, that approach can be useful for short stories too (sometimes only published in collections). |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Don't be so optimistic. There are chapter title pages, omake pages, words from the author (can be either in pure text or manga-styled), advertisement, chapters not included in tankoubon, etc. that would make page counts different. Just my two cents. 
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I just wanted to know where your research has taken you in this matter. If any, I know all you guys are all volunteers, and I respect all the hard work you put into this free resource. But please don't forget about this, I think the case as laid out is relevant enough to at least look into. And if rejected to at least give a reason as to why. Thanks again. I hope I am not bugging you(or any of the encyclopedia editors for that matter) but the topic fell silent, and I was wondering why. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Well, one reason is that sTwo, the semi-official fansite of Masamune Shirow, is not exactly safe-for-work... 
During my search I found something very intriguing: neither the Japanese nor the English editions has put "Tank Police" as part of the official title of the manga!  I tried to search for cover arts and such, but all I got were cover arts of anime and game guides. Thus I have a reasonable doubt that the title with "Tank Police" in it was created backwards from the anime version, for the latter was introduced to North America roughly 18 months earlier than its manga original.
These are what I'm going to do:
If there's no objection in 24 hours I'm going to do as above. Related request: a title picture for the 1988 OVA, NOT the 1993 one. There are a dozen on Yahoo! Japan Auctions, but those VHS covers were illustrated by Shirow and not in anime style. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Ah yes! It's one thing getting caught using the computer for something other than "work". It's another to be caught using it for something other than work while having naked/semi naked catgirls on the screen. 
No objections, I think you got everything on a much better track than it was before. Just a slight observation if I may. I am not sure what kind of linkage titles you have available to you. But "alternative retelling" may be a little misleading. It shares some of the same characters from the Dominion, and some of the same type of physics/mechanics from Dominion. But other than that it is a different universe, and most definitely tells a different story. There are homages to the first Dominion, but as far as any kind of impact on the story that's all they really are is homages and nothing more(refer to quote box in first post). Originally Conflict was to have four books, hence the the Conflict ->1<-. Obviously the other three were never made, but the plan was to have each one be a different story or struggle, which takes place within the the "Conflict" universe. Not the original Dominion universe. Personally, I wish he would finish the Conflict series, since in my opinion it was a much better put together story, and I enjoyed it more. To my knowledge he has never publically said that he wouldn't, but let's face it, at this point the chances of that are slim. Basically, I can't come up with very strong evidence to say that "alternative retelling" is wrong. In its most basic meaning, it's not wrong at all. However if you can come up with a better term after what I just described, it may just be more correct.
Would a screen cap be okay? Thanks again for your time on this. I know old titles like this probably don't have high priority. While I got your attention can I humbly ask why this was never given any thought. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Done. In addition to the three points above, I've also updated the release information, as well as moving TANK S.W.A.T. 01 as an adaptation of Conflict 1, given the fact that Puma sisters are now part of the police team, plus the catalog of sTwo has Keisatsu Senshatai (警察戦車隊) as part of the Conflict 1 manga title (警察戦車隊ドミニオンC;1 コンフリクト編 第1話「NO MORE NOISE」), yet never appeared on the cover.
Certainly. By the way, I also stumped into a "related" but actually nonexistent title: Dominion TV series. Can't remove it because as many as 35 users have included it in their MyAnime list. 
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Awesome job!
I will try to find a good picture for Dominion OAV. If I remember correctly it is kinda hard to find a picture on the net, and I sometimes have technical troubles doing screencaps off of a DVD. But I will give it a shot. We might have to use one of the pics Justin used in his Buried Treasure article. |
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