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Forum - View topicCode Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (TV).
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I want to get away from the negativity for a second and ask this thread something: spoiler[Does the Tristan Twin use the two halves of Excalibur as it's swords? The way that Excalibur was cleaved so perfectly in two down that particular axis, plus the way that both halves landed next to Gino, makes me wonder. So, does anyone know anything about this?]
Plus, Galahad spoiler[was far faster and far more maneuverable than it looked, which was a surprise. I suppose that the battle was designed to invoke the battle between Altron Kai and Wing Zero Kai from Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz, which also featured a close combat suit (the Altron Kai) keeping up with a winged suit of supposedly superior speed (the Wing Zero Kai). That's not all, as the choreography (between the two Knightmare Frames) also bore a striking resemblance to that of the two Gundams, with the criss-crossing "DNA" flight paths.] |
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flyingm
 Posts: 19 Location: Chinatown, the big one |
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I have a feeling spoiler[Gino will pick up the halves of Excalibur and do...something with them (does duct tape work on giant swords?).] I don't know anything about Gundam so I can't help you out there but in the meantime some quick questions.
Did anybody else feel like the spoiler["seeing into the future" power is a pretty extraordinary ability that just kind popped up like a side note? I know everything is a bit rushed now but that really stuck out for me. It could easily have been a gigantic plot point but in the end it only gave him a few extra seconds of life. Long enough to realize how absolutely useless it was. Nobody has mentioned it so far so I'm just wondering.] I'm having trouble understanding Lelouch and Suzaku's motives right now. Did I miss something? Also, did it seem like Kallen's face in this episode looked kind of off? (Since this is so very important to the story.) |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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What I meant about Excalibur spoiler[was not that it would be repaired and made whole again, but that Gino would use the two halves as individual swords. Of course, Excalibur was bigger than the Galahad, which was 150% of the height of most Knightmare Frames. Which means that it would be pretty hard for the Tristan Twin to duel-wield the two halves.]
That sort of Geass featured in the Nightmare of Nunnally Manga, spoiler[which was set in an alternative universe. I don't think Bismarck's Geass was just limited to seeing the near-future; he appeared to know about the Emperor's demise as soon as it happened, even though his eye was (mostly) sealed at the time.] And yes, it is an extraordinary power, which defies previous conventions. spoiler[It's interesting, actually; Bismarck is the first person we have met who has more than one "gear" of Geass (as I term it). Plus, all the Geass' we saw before him concerned influencing other people's minds in unique ways, bar Mao's (and even then it still dealt with the mind). Compulsion, "hand compulsion" (as seen in episode 14 of season two), altering memories, freezing the subjective passage of time, making people love the user, and transferring a consciousness to another person.] Bismarck's spoiler[Geass doesn't influence other people at all. The closest Geass to it was Mao's (reading thoughts), who also didn't influence people directly with his Geass. I have a little theory, in that Bismarck cannot actually read the future, only the intentions of a specific person. To refine that further, he gets to know what a person will try and do next, which is a massive advantage in battle. When Suzaku's "live" compulsion activated, he started to act on instinct instead of planned tactics, thereby depriving Bismarck of any forewarning of what moves Suzaku was going to try. Without the forewarning that his Geass would otherwise provide, Bismarck lost his only edge against a far faster and far more manoeuvrable opponent.]
Lelouch didn't quite explain what his spoiler[Zero Requiem was, but he did say he would make everyone forget the "Massacre Princess" (Euphemia). It probably involves taking over the world, then rebuilding it into a place where his sister (whom he thought dead) would have been happy, but doing it in a way that makes people hate him more than Euphemia. Who knows, really.]
I didn't think it looked "off" at all, though I wasn't really looking hard. Do you mean her emotions were off? Hoped it helped a little. Lastly, a question of my own: where did this spoiler["Toromo Institute" (which seems to be located in Cambodia of all places) come from? Was it mentioned in a previous episode? I know Cambodia was mentioned last episode, but I think that was it. The term just sort of popped up.] Last edited by dtm42 on Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I could be wrong but I thought that it was shown to be pretty obvious that Suzaku and Lelouch plan to spoiler[destroy Britannia's nobility hierarchy from within while simultaneously turning the whole world against them so that when they die, the whole world will be brought together, and the rule of Britannia will end; hence Suzaku, who up until now, is working with Lelouch, and also why Lelouch is seeming like he's going on a power trip with the geass, commanding people to be his slaves etc. I don't think he's gotten drunk off power and has just lost his sense of values; I think he plans to use Jeremiah to un-geass everyone and pretty much suicide so that a) people remember his evils far more than Euphemia, the genocide princess, and b) so that his perfect world can be created from his death.]
Of course, spoiler[Nunally being alive is going to throw a spanner in his plans. That has pretty much ruined this season for me, although it's being hell rushed now which is just gay.] |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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I still don't understand how would the world be a better place if everyone consider Lulu as an utter bastard. If Lulu thinks like that then what does he think happen that everyone will magically change into respectable and honest people because of it? I don't think so. Last edited by Aylinn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Raven Shinobi
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It's rather disappointing to see that after a solid set of mid-season episodes, they decided to rush through the last three ones without earlier build-up or proper fleshing out of the events. It makes me want to hit the writers with a harisen for wasting a good deal of the first half of this season on useless crap to draw new audience.
spoiler[Lulu's plan to "apologize" for Euphie's death with spilling more blood than she did is a little too extreme, and it's beyond me how Suzaku is complying with that with all of his war philosophies of preventing people from getting killed.] spoiler[Lulu's reaction to that kiss was the last nail in the coffin for Kallen/Lulu, I didn't expect though that Kallen's decision was based on whether she meant something to Lelouch rarther than his current ideals, this is also quite aggravating how the amount of screentime this character had was dedicated to developing her one-sided love rather than her background that we still don't know much about. I've never been much of a Kallen fan, but I must admit that I kind of liked that kiss, and I couldn't help but feel sorry for her for enduring Lulu's reaction afterward.] spoiler[Man, Nunnally looked quite pissed, and I can't quite blame her for wanting to rid the world of her brother's stupidity with her own hands. I'm looking forward to Schneizel's role in the upcoming episodes and what his true ideals are about, I've been quite a fan of his since last season.] Unless Lelouch doesn't some how redeem himself before the final episode, I expect nothing short of death as a fitting end for him. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Raven Shinobi: The writers are certainly not blameless, at all, but the root of that problem lies in the time slot change, which the director originally opposed.
Also, Suzaku spoiler[has recently changed his way of thinking, placing results before methods. There was some build-up for that, albeit brief, so it doesn't surprise me he would be willing to cooperate with such a plan...which seems to include punishment for himself and Lelouch as well. It's not just about Euphie's death, but that's probably the most important factor that involves both of them (Suzaku wanted revenge for it and Lelouch feels guilty enough).] As for Kallen spoiler[ and her background, the only thing that didn't quite get developed was her father's side of the family. Her brother's dead, her mom's in treatment and/or in jail at the moment, as was already established during season one, so I don't believe there was too much to be done there. ] Aylinn: spoiler[ On a personal level, I believe Lelouch wants to be punished for his actions, which he has recognized as sins several times. I suppose the idea is that he doesn't expect redemption, though the show might give it to him thanks to the most recent turn of events. It's not that everyone will "magically change" just by making himself look bad, but uniting the world either under or against Britannia would definitely change the global status quo (taking out Schneizel in the process) and, ideally, would prevent any further wars. Not exactly realistic but then again this isn't the first time such logic is used in anime or fiction. ]
You might be on to something. spoiler[There's the size problem, but then again it could be solved in any number of ways (scaling the new Tristan or the Excalibur's halves up or down as required).]
The episode's art style wasn't exactly the best, but I didn't have any problems with it there. Still looked better than Turn 20.
spoiler[It looks like Cambodia and the institute were referenced at least once in season one (Stage 20) and another time in season two (Turn 15), according to a certain blog. Doesn't mean that makes its re-introduction less sudden, but the term was apparently out there already.] |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I still find this too easy of an excuse, because I think they could have very easily dealt with the situation better. Yes, it's a set-back, but 20 episodes in it really shouldn't still be the thing to blame for everything that's gone "wrong." |
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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It's not everything there is to blame, let alone for everything that has gone "wrong", I've said so myself, but it can't be denied that it is a part of the problem and logically came first. It did however alter the first part of the show and the time that was "wasted" on it. The details depend on the staff and their own decisions, but they had to work within that framework, which was not what they wanted to do. They are still responsible for their own work, of course. |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Posts: 1215 |
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The way I see it, everyone has gotten their due in their own arc:
1-3 (Spying On Lelouch Arc): Rolo/Viletta 4-8 (Black Knights Rebellion and Exile Arc): Todou, Karen, Black Knights etc 9-11 (China Arc): Xingke, Tianzi, Kaguya 12-14 (Geass Cult Arc): V.V, Jeremiah, Shirley 15 (World of C Arc): C.C 16-19 (Second Battle of Tokyo Arc): Knight of Rounds Characters 20-21 (Ragnarok Junction Arc): Charles and Marianne 22-? (Finale Arc): Lelouch, Suzaku, Schneizel, Nunally, Everybody (?) Basically Lelouch, Suzaku, Nunally and Schneizel have been fairly prevelant throughout most of the arcs as key characters so this last one belongs to finish them up as the main characters. Other characters slip in and out of the limelight, but each has been given their moment in the sun. Many of the other characters already sort of have closure in their character development in their respective arcs and I think that's about as far as they are going to take them in the TV Series barring what happens to them in this last arc. Personally I'd rather focus on Lelouch, Suzaku and Nunally who have always been the key characters since the moment they knew each other as children and see if they can salvage something of their relationship through all that's happened and is about to happen. Right now characters like the Knight of Rounds are sort of secondary and I'm kind of glad they are all but out of the way. This is their arc clearly (along with Schneizel) so let them have it. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I have had mixed feelings for the past 8 episodes or so. I've been willing to drink the Geass cool-aid, so to speak, but its been increasingly difficult to overlook the flaws. I mostly liked episode 21, but the last two minutes I was really iffy on. It wasn't necessarily a bad direction to go (though the mass geassing bugged me; Geassing everyone into slaves just seems too cheap and easy), it just needed to be executed well to work. Unfortunately, they kicked the pacing up to mach 5 and unsurprisingly, it became more ridiculous and poorly executed. The series underwent a drastic shiftand they handled rather poorly. Some of the other flaws aren't necessarily related but nonetheless push my tolerance (spoiler[like how absurdly strong the Lancelot has become, how many characters seem to have been (re)introduced with little to no point [Cornelia, XingKe; whatever happened to his illness anyway?], unceremoniously killing off potentially interesting characters after less than five lines of dialogue over the course of the season or even less than 5 seconds of screentime, etc.]) The series isn't unredeemable, but my opinion of the series as a whole is dropping, I'm hardly satisfied with how things have gone and I'm more than a little worried how the remainder will play out. |
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Chaos42
 Posts: 153 |
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saw the 30 sec preview and i have to say this spoiler[THERE IS A PINK LANCELOT] Also it looks like all out war will definatly errupt spoiler[and from what i gathered with lelouch and nunnaly both holding detonation controls both sides will have the super weapons pointed at each other and in general everything is about to go straight to HELL]
Also im realy don't think lelouch will get the light ending simply because one its been done and two it would be too pridictable he's probably going to end up trying to do it and he's going to be stoped by either nunnaly suzaku or kallen seeing as they are the only ones who would - also i wounder if you have code (immortality) what happens if you get vaped by a freye bomb-im guessing spoiler[that is lelouch's plan that he's going to kill cc and then try to kill him self with one of those or kill her with one either way its a possible since the emporer was destroy by disintigration] On the front of kallen and lelouch i don't think they are finished. spoiler[ with relationships in this series there is usualy some major even of some kind with shirly there were several culminating in her death and then there was Euphy and Viletta both have had major events defining their relationships. With the way Lelouch plots im betting that kallens going to find out that he's doing this to save people and is taking all the blame. She is definatly going to do something what im not sure ] Suzakuspoiler[I think he's going to die at the end of the series taking lelouch's place so to speek. Lelouch is burdening himself and the girl suzaku cares for is already dead, im thinking he's going to sacrific himself some how probably get jeramia to remove the geass, and some how end up saving lelouch] |
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Raven Shinobi
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I acknowledge the pressure placed on Taniguchi and his team due to the change in the time slot, what annoy me, however, is that it seems that drawing new viewers was their first priority rather than developing characters and properly fleshing out events. I think that dedicating the first few episodes of R2 to re-inroduce the basics of the series would've been sufficient, there was no need to go as far as plaguing half a season with fan service and scenes unrelated to the main plot.
What disappointed me about Kallen's development was that spoiler[thoroughly exploring her one-sided love with Lelouch ended up serving no purpose to the plot, IMO. Whether or not the developers meant to give her a lot of screentime this season, exploring her past with Naoto and her relationship with her father -or lack of it- would've served a better material for developing her character.] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I agree. We get all these hints about spoiler[Kallen's admiration for Naota, but then what? I would have been happy if they had taken the time (like episode nine of season one) to expand on her past. But where would the writers have placed it?] Well, it's funny, but I believe the whole spoiler[Geass Order arc was a waste of time. If they wanted to explain how Rolo got Geass, couldn't they have just spent half an episode explaining how V2 gave it to him? I know that V2 didn't give Rolo his Geass, but it would have been so much better (and clearer) if he had. V2 would have simply become Charles' "ally" rather than the leader of a cult which uses unknown means to give people their Geass'.] Of course, no spoiler[Geass Cult means the China arc would have had to been modified, but not by much. China was important anyway, with its closeness to Japan and a potentially strong power to anyone who can control it.] As for episode fifteen, spoiler[that could have been caused by Lelouch touching the ruins at Kaminejima (did I spell that right?) in a bid to further understand Geass.] All in all, this season reeks of too many ideas, and too much emphasis on things which didn't really need them. In other words, it has lots of fat which could have been trimmed. If they had, maybe Sunrise wouldn't be in such a massive hurry to finish the series. That said, the Mao arc in season one was mostly filler in and of itself, though it did bring some serious development on some fronts. Anyway, that's it for me. |
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Chaos42
Posts: 153 |
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i think that they did rush to much in places and not long enuff in others plus some of it was just filler like a lot of the episodes like the cat chases or festivals didn't have much impact-or could have been done in a quicker way-villetta suzaku and other charaters could have been done better instead of devoting an entire episode to a cat chase
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