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REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin: Chronicle Of Char And Sayla Collection


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John Thacker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:13 am Reply with quote
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It's a little odd to hear Shūichi Ikeda, Char's original voice actor who is now in his late 60s, voicing Char as a teen, and an equally aged Toru Furuya as teen Amuro—though honestly, I can't imagine this pair with different voices anymore.


It's especially jarring because on the one hand, Shūichi Ikeda uses his very deep and portentous sounding voice even for teenage Char, which sounds incongruous, especially since Ikeda-san didn't voice Char with such a deep voice back in the 1979 series. The timbre of his voice changed throughout the years.

OTOH, while less jarring in an in-universe sense, Tōru Furuya's voice as Amuro sounds almost exactly the same as it did in 1979 (or as he did in KOR as Kyōsuke Kasuga or other roles.) That one is jarring only if you start thinking in an outside the fourth wall sense.

The final and most crazy voice acting note is that Lalah Sune ends up being played by Megumi Han-- the daughter of original Lalah Keiko Han. So Char and Amuro are played by their original voices, but the third member of the love triangle is replaced by her daughter!

Anyway, great anime. My wife is not a big Gundam fan like me (but she has suffered to watch them with me) and it is by far her favorite Gundam, but I think it's great for long time fans as well (even with a couple retcons, but sensible ones.)
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AyanamiRei



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote
Great OAVs indeed.
As for the 3DCGI robots, I took this as a sign that drawing robots would never be a thing again (big deception after Sunrise's Unicorn and G-Reco, especially since The Origin seems to be a "deluxe OAV" kind of of product).

"it takes a humanistic, character-driven approach to Gundam's mecha-heavy tale"
I thought that one of Gundam's original appeals was to be character-driven by opposition to the mecha-centered anime that came before.


John Thacker wrote:
a couple retcons, sensible ones.

The modifications (in term of tech. progression, characters ages, locations etc) are not retcons, they are simply taken from the manga. A manga who made the choice to smooth out some weirdness of the original (like one prototype being far superior to the two others supposedly developed alongside) and to make Char the central figure behind the One Year War (thus, forcing to change ages in order to make him do more things I guess).
Anyway, what I mean is that it doesn't change anything to the official story (if I remember right, the theatrical cut, unless it's still the TV show) since it's simply an adaptation of an alternative retelling.
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John Thacker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 pm Reply with quote
AyanamiRei wrote:
John Thacker wrote:
a couple retcons, sensible ones.

The modifications (in term of tech. progression, characters ages, locations etc) are not retcons, they are simply taken from the manga. A manga who made the choice to smooth out some weirdness of the original...


In other words, retcons by the manga, yes? "Smooth out some weirdness of the original" is a great way to define sensible retcons. Anyway, that's just quibbling over vocabulary.
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Codeanime93



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:09 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker
Then you have Char/Casval as a Child voiced by Mayumi Tanaka which is funny considering her and Ikeda's roles on One Piece.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:16 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Tōru Furuya's voice as Amuro sounds almost exactly the same as it did in 1979 (or as he did in KOR as Kyōsuke Kasuga or other roles.)


Furuya is almost Araki-level at youth possessing.
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Codeanime93



Joined: 28 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:22 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
John Thacker wrote:
Tōru Furuya's voice as Amuro sounds almost exactly the same as it did in 1979 (or as he did in KOR as Kyōsuke Kasuga or other roles.)


Furuya is almost Araki-level at youth possessing.

Doesn't Toshio Furukawa also voice a teenage Kai Shiden in the Origin OVAs as well? Or was that someone else voicing him? What I honestly hate is Mami Koyama is apparently too old now to voice Kycillia Zabi (or unavailable), but Banjo Ginga isn't too old for Gihren.
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#alfrescoCR



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:31 pm Reply with quote
As for the CGI aspect, just think of this: why would sunrise animate it on hand drawn if there's no GUNDAM on it? Ofcourse they would be on CGI. The MSs where just a piece of metal robot prototypes for zakus and nothing else. And this OVA isn't your typical GUNDAM show that sells gunpla, except to those hardcore fans that collects all the gunpla they saw on TV. And it wasn't an action pack series either. Its just an origin story so CGI would just do fine.
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Kicksville



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:18 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
AyanamiRei wrote:
The modifications (in term of tech. progression, characters ages, locations etc) are not retcons, they are simply taken from the manga. A manga who made the choice to smooth out some weirdness of the original...


In other words, retcons by the manga, yes? "Smooth out some weirdness of the original" is a great way to define sensible retcons. Anyway, that's just quibbling over vocabulary.

Retcons generally refer to replacing a part of continuity with something different - but it's still the same continuity. The Origin manga does not replace the original 1979 Gundam anime, it's just an alternate retelling.

The Origin OVA is an animation of a part of The Origin manga. However, it hasn't been indicated that The Origin OVA is an actual prequel to the actual 1979 Gundam anime. If they ever declare that it is, then these changes would be retcons.

So for instance, while you could technically watch Zeta Gundam after reading The Origin manga, officially, 1979 Gundam is still what actually takes place before it, not The Origin (or any part of it).
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GeorgeC



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:09 am Reply with quote
My understanding is that Gundam: Origin IS a minor retcon to the original MS Gundam that expands and retells the main storyline without invalidating the original series.

So, yes, they are making minor changes to the storyline but at least Gundam fans are not getting outright JJ-Prised by Sunrise.
There's a lesson here that Hollywood could learn.
There are a ton of pissed-off Star Trek and Star Wars who are not happy with how those franchises have been handled lately.
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Kicksville



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:36 am Reply with quote
There are some things that may be "sure why not" since it covers material the original Gundam anime simply did not, but there are others that contradict the anime fairly significantly. For instance, Guncannons existing prior to Operation V. It might seem like a technical nerd quibble at first, but it results in stuff in the original anime making no sense. In other words, that WOULD invalidate the original series.

So unless they outright state they're grafting it onto the canon of the original UC anime timeline, I would not believe it to be a retcon. And if they ever DO do that...well, again, it would be ridiculous, since it needlessly creates annoying contradictions. There's plenty of reason to believe it's just an adaptation of an alternate UC timeline and so far no reason to believe it's part of the original anime one.

I'm not saying it's worthless or unviewable because of that or anything, of course - or even that it can't be used as an entry point - just that its canonicity as far as the other UC anime is concerned isn't confirmed (and wouldn't make sense anyway).

EDIT:
To clarify even further (and hopefully to demonstrate I'm trying to be helpful and not a "WELL ACTUALLY" type here, I swear ;_;), the official stance on what's canon has long established that "anything animated = definitely canon". The Zeta Gundam movies were the first thing to throw a wrench into this, since its new ending means ZZ Gundam doesn't happen, but that's easily resolved as just kinda obviously being an alternate timeline - they haven't decided ZZ Gundam and Char's Counterattack don't exist now, and have never said so.

The Origin here is the second to throw a big one, so the confusion is warranted - it's animated, and it says it's on the UC timeline, so...? Again, since it does contradict things in the original 1979 anime, it doesn't make sense for it to be a part of that, but it does make sense for it to simply be an alternate UC timeline (being an adaptation of a portion from an alternate UC timeline manga). Unless they ever say otherwise. And again, my personal stance there is that if they do, they are being very silly billies.
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Codeanime93



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 am Reply with quote
Kicksville wrote:
There are some things that may be "sure why not" since it covers material the original Gundam anime simply did not, but there are others that contradict the anime fairly significantly. For instance, Guncannons existing prior to Operation V. It might seem like a technical nerd quibble at first, but it results in stuff in the original anime making no sense. In other words, that WOULD invalidate the original series.

So unless they outright state they're grafting it onto the canon of the original UC anime timeline, I would not believe it to be a retcon. And if they ever DO do that...well, again, it would be ridiculous, since it needlessly creates annoying contradictions. There's plenty of reason to believe it's just an adaptation of an alternate UC timeline and so far no reason to believe it's part of the original anime one.

I'm not saying it's worthless or unviewable because of that or anything, of course - or even that it can't be used as an entry point - just that its canonicity as far as the other UC anime is concerned isn't confirmed (and wouldn't make sense anyway).

EDIT:
To clarify even further (and hopefully to demonstrate I'm trying to be helpful and not a "WELL ACTUALLY" type here, I swear Anime cry), the official stance on what's canon has long established that "anything animated = definitely canon". The Zeta Gundam movies were the first thing to throw a wrench into this, since its new ending means ZZ Gundam doesn't happen, but that's easily resolved as just kinda obviously being an alternate timeline - they haven't decided ZZ Gundam and Char's Counterattack don't exist now, and have never said so.

The Origin here is the second to throw a big one, so the confusion is warranted - it's animated, and it says it's on the UC timeline, so...? Again, since it does contradict things in the original 1979 anime, it doesn't make sense for it to be a part of that, but it does make sense for it to simply be an alternate UC timeline (being an adaptation of a portion from an alternate UC timeline manga). Unless they ever say otherwise. And again, my personal stance there is that if they do, they are being very silly billies.


Honestly, I just find The Origin entertaining, in the aftermath of IBO I need the palate cleanser even if it screws with the continuity of the main show. I love watching Char Aznable be the main character and backstabbing people here. I can ignore the constant canon problems. At least I'm not sitting through Okada's messy writing of another season of IBO.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:59 am Reply with quote
GeorgeC wrote:
My understanding is that Gundam: Origin IS a minor retcon to the original MS Gundam that expands and retells the main storyline without invalidating the original series.


It definitely isn't, as there are some major changes, especially towards the end of the manga, that fundamentally alter the course of the Universal Century timeline, and as a consequence invalidate Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Unicorn, etc..
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John Thacker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Codeanime93 wrote:
Doesn't Toshio Furukawa also voice a teenage Kai Shiden in the Origin OVAs as well? Or was that someone else voicing him? What I honestly hate is Mami Koyama is apparently too old now to voice Kycillia Zabi (or unavailable), but Banjo Ginga isn't too old for Gihren.


Yes, you're right about Toshio Furukawa.

What you hate is that for some reason it seems like the male seiyuu can be brought back (even if their voice has changed a bit) but the women get changed for younger actresses? It does seem that way.
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Codeanime93



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:12 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Codeanime93 wrote:
Doesn't Toshio Furukawa also voice a teenage Kai Shiden in the Origin OVAs as well? Or was that someone else voicing him? What I honestly hate is Mami Koyama is apparently too old now to voice Kycillia Zabi (or unavailable), but Banjo Ginga isn't too old for Gihren.


Yes, you're right about Toshio Furukawa.

What you hate is that for some reason it seems like the male seiyuu can be brought back (even if their voice has changed a bit) but the women get changed for younger actresses? It does seem that way.

Well actually Garma Zabi's voice actor was changed so I guess not all the female voice actors. Also they retired Ramba Ral's VA as well. It is funny hearing a late 60s/early 70s year old Furukawa playing a late teens Kai Shiden, but then again he also still does Piccolo. I do realize some of the voice replacements are warranted due to untimely deaths of the voice actors (Artesia, Degwin and Dozle Zabi).
I'm just surprised that Mami Koyama is considered too old to pull off a younger Kycillia Zabi, has her voice degraded that much over the years?
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Bracketier



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
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It definitely isn't, as there are some major changes, especially towards the end of the manga, that fundamentally alter the course of the Universal Century timeline, and as a consequence invalidate Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Unicorn, etc..


What are some of them that change things up? I'm still reading The Origin manga, but I don't have a strong enough memory of 0079 to recall what has been changed. (Not worried about spoilers, I just want to understand what is different)
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