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Anime Spotlight - The Magnificent KOTOBUKI




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gridsleep



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 213
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:38 am Reply with quote
Androids may dream of electric sheep, but do anime producers dream of a world run entirely by strippers? Many of the ensemble adventure/comedy shows of the past few years have become more and more saturated with characters who look as if they were hired while dancing on a pole. It's bad enough that the entirety of the American comics industry has gone that way (since day 1 some would argue, perhaps rightly.) I find it difficult to concentrate on an anime's literary value when at least one of the characters is a clone of Lolipop Chainsaw.
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myfairx



Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:27 am Reply with quote
I'm gonna wait and see if this is going to charm fans just like GnP / Shirobako.

I don't really dig it judging from the trailer.
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Slashman



Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Posts: 195
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:18 pm Reply with quote
gridsleep wrote:
Androids may dream of electric sheep, but do anime producers dream of a world run entirely by strippers? Many of the ensemble adventure/comedy shows of the past few years have become more and more saturated with characters who look as if they were hired while dancing on a pole. It's bad enough that the entirety of the American comics industry has gone that way (since day 1 some would argue, perhaps rightly.) I find it difficult to concentrate on an anime's literary value when at least one of the characters is a clone of Lolipop Chainsaw.


Perhaps its your own prudish worldview that needs adjusting. I wonder what anime you actually enjoy if that's your complaint.

And there's nothing wrong with strippers. In fact I would argue they can do some incredible things.
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gridsleep



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 213
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:18 am Reply with quote
Slashman wrote:
I wonder what anime you actually enjoy if that's your complaint.
.



Serial Experiments:Lain
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phia_one



Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 1371
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:57 pm Reply with quote
Seems like it could have potential. I'll check it out.
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j_plex



Joined: 28 Aug 2018
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:18 am Reply with quote
Slashman wrote:
gridsleep wrote:
Androids may dream of electric sheep, but do anime producers dream of a world run entirely by strippers? Many of the ensemble adventure/comedy shows of the past few years have become more and more saturated with characters who look as if they were hired while dancing on a pole. It's bad enough that the entirety of the American comics industry has gone that way (since day 1 some would argue, perhaps rightly.) I find it difficult to concentrate on an anime's literary value when at least one of the characters is a clone of Lolipop Chainsaw.


Perhaps its your own prudish worldview that needs adjusting. I wonder what anime you actually enjoy if that's your complaint.

And there's nothing wrong with strippers. In fact I would argue they can do some incredible things.


Not necessarily prudish. One can be put off by the endless "moe girl fanservice action series" that the industry is cranking out, and has been going on so long and is so pervasive that we have had two separate anime series (New Game and Shirobako) parody the making of them.

Try taking away just ONE of the elements and it completely changes everything. Remove the fanservice and you get Girls und Panzer, which everyone likes. Add at least one significant male character and you get WorldEnd, which everyone likes. (WorldEnd wasn't even a harem.) Remove the fantasy action setting and you get Lucky Star/Azumanga Daioh, which everyone likes. Get rid of the moe female character designs and you get Slayers, which everyone likes.

Proof that mere prudism isn't the issue: Gainax practically invented modern anime fanservice, their spinoff Trigger actually amped it up yet neither studio does moe. Compare the character designs of the original Gunbuster - which was very much a fanservicey action series with a female dominated cast - to this one.

These series are either designed for 11 year old males or those with the mentality of them. Either way it isn't a good look for the industry.
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Slashman



Joined: 26 Dec 2015
Posts: 195
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:29 pm Reply with quote
j_plex wrote:
Slashman wrote:
gridsleep wrote:
Androids may dream of electric sheep, but do anime producers dream of a world run entirely by strippers? Many of the ensemble adventure/comedy shows of the past few years have become more and more saturated with characters who look as if they were hired while dancing on a pole. It's bad enough that the entirety of the American comics industry has gone that way (since day 1 some would argue, perhaps rightly.) I find it difficult to concentrate on an anime's literary value when at least one of the characters is a clone of Lolipop Chainsaw.


Perhaps its your own prudish worldview that needs adjusting. I wonder what anime you actually enjoy if that's your complaint.

And there's nothing wrong with strippers. In fact I would argue they can do some incredible things.


Not necessarily prudish. One can be put off by the endless "moe girl fanservice action series" that the industry is cranking out, and has been going on so long and is so pervasive that we have had two separate anime series (New Game and Shirobako) parody the making of them.

Try taking away just ONE of the elements and it completely changes everything. Remove the fanservice and you get Girls und Panzer, which everyone likes. Add at least one significant male character and you get WorldEnd, which everyone likes. (WorldEnd wasn't even a harem.) Remove the fantasy action setting and you get Lucky Star/Azumanga Daioh, which everyone likes. Get rid of the moe female character designs and you get Slayers, which everyone likes.

Proof that mere prudism isn't the issue: Gainax practically invented modern anime fanservice, their spinoff Trigger actually amped it up yet neither studio does moe. Compare the character designs of the original Gunbuster - which was very much a fanservicey action series with a female dominated cast - to this one.

These series are either designed for 11 year old males or those with the mentality of them. Either way it isn't a good look for the industry.


Seriously...what the hell are you even talking about? There has been no shortage of great series this season. You don't like something? Guess what...there are others who like it just fine.

What are you accomplishing by commenting in a thread about the series that you don't like.

And not a good look for the industry? Wow your viewpoint is way too narrow if these shows are what you worry about. Perhaps you missed My Sister, My writer or some of the lame isekai shows that are growing out the woodwork?
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 544
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:01 am Reply with quote
j_plex wrote:
One can be put off by the endless "moe girl fanservice action series" that the industry is cranking out


That has become a popular trope lately, although I don't think this show (which isn't even out yet...) is necessarily an example. Only one of those characters has a fanservicey design, and I didn't see obvious male-gaze or anything like that in the trailer. Stereotypical girly character types, perhaps, but, well, nothing's perfect. Attempts to make action-fanservice-genre shows have increasingly, and somewhat by accident, created actually-good shows like Princess Principal or, as you mentioned, Panzer. Anime is moving towards positive portrayals of women from a rather strange direction, but it seems to be working.

The other can-o'-worms here is that the post starting this whole discussion is falling into a different, older trope, of blaming women for their own attractiveness, which... is some impressive mental gymnastics given that the characters are drawings, and they're trying to criticize the male writers simultaneously. ("Hired while dancing on a pole" was probably not the best choice of metaphors.) But I'm not sure where to go with that one beyond pointing out how strange it is. Stick to targeting the decision-makers of these productions, is my main suggestion.
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#HayamiLover



Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 306
Location: Eastern Europe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:20 pm Reply with quote
gridsleep wrote:
Androids may dream of electric sheep, but do anime producers dream of a world run entirely by strippers? Many of the ensemble adventure/comedy shows of the past few years have become more and more saturated with characters who look as if they were hired while dancing on a pole. It's bad enough that the entirety of the American comics industry has gone that way (since day 1 some would argue, perhaps rightly.) I find it difficult to concentrate on an anime's literary value when at least one of the characters is a clone of Lolipop Chainsaw.


There is nothing strange in this, for most of the anime industry is focused on guys, and cute girls and fan service are traditionally something that can easily attract males. If the studios remembered that anime also watch a lot of women, we would get a bunch of shows with the Free-ish bisho. Of course, people in the West often take this for some kind of feminist message or representation of strong female characters, but as was said below, a similar approach has continued since the 90s.

kotomikun wrote:
That has become a popular trope lately, although I don't think this show (which isn't even out yet...) is necessarily an example. Only one of those characters has a fanservicey design, and I didn't see obvious male-gaze or anything like that in the trailer. Stereotypical girly character types, perhaps, but, well, nothing's perfect. Attempts to make action-fanservice-genre shows have increasingly, and somewhat by accident, created actually-good shows like Princess Principal or, as you mentioned, Panzer. Anime is moving towards positive portrayals of women from a rather strange direction, but it seems to be working.


In the anime, there has never been a lack of positive portrayals of women, especially when it comes to the moe show or the CGDCT genre. To such a level that sometimes you will rather think about the lack of a positive portrayals of men, because many otaku hate male characters so much, that recently, many idols don't even use gender words in their songs. Recently, I even saw how all the girls from SAO were called "sluts" just because they show an interest in male MC, and not "remain innocent virgins".

Slashman wrote:
And not a good look for the industry? Wow your viewpoint is way too narrow if these shows are what you worry about. Perhaps you missed My Sister, My writer or some of the lame isekai shows that are growing out the woodwork?


It is strange to expect from the ecchi harem show that its heroines will not be depicted excessively hot with huge doses of fanservice. This is one of the basic principles of the genre. Another thing is when the “plot show” seems to use a similar approach. However, I do not understand the reasons for such complaints, as the moe itself is not yet synonymous with ecchi and I do not see anything shameful or vulgar in the promotion of this anime.

Perhaps we will get some shiping fanservice (I already see two ship bait among the heroines), but I don’t want to argue about the plot of the anime that I didn’t even watch.
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