Forum - View topicSonic the Hedgehog Producer on Celebrating Game's 35th Anniversary and the Future of the Series
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LinkTSwordmaster
 Posts: 827 Location: PA / USA |
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I maintain that the v2.3 release of Ring Racers was probably the absolute high point of anything Sonic will ever be from here on, and it wasn't even an official Sega release. I really liked what Mania did but there was a lot of repackaged existing levels in it. I liked what Shadow Generations did, but again, it was kinda of a repackage outside of the new Shadow content. Frontiers needs modded to hit a playability sweet spot, and otherwise only seems to be a weird justification for Sega's dev teams to prototype their open world engine in PSO2: New Genesis.
I hold those releases up against what fans managed to pack into Ring Racers and it functions as a mechanically-deeper CrossWorlds racer, while hitting 100x the nostalgia that Mania does, all while managing to have the 3D platforming of a more matured 3D Sonic game like Shadow Generations. Anything that Sega tries to do, especially in an age where their new Crazy Taxi release is getting blasted for using Ai assist tools is just always going to fly in subpar compared to the once-in-a-generation delight that v2.3 Ring Racers is. CrossWorlds is fine for being able to quickly group up friends and make an evening of it, but nothing has captured that adrenaline of 100%'ing a Sonic 3+Knuckles lock-on run the same way that unlocking things in Ring Racers feels. Sega stopped having any idea what passion-project games looked like after the Dreamcast died. You get an anomaly like Sonic Racing Transformed here and there that are actually fun to play, but it's the fans that are the future of Sega, not their corporate dev times/budgets/Ai slop. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 7260 |
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If it leads to more stuff like Sonic Mania, Streets Of Rage 4, or Art Of Vengeance that’s not really a good thing. Nostalgia only goes so far. |
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Ryuji-Dono
 Posts: 1317 |
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Are you saying these games are garbage? 
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 7260 |
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No just pointing out that while it might seem like a good idea to have fans work on a video game that harkens back the era these games were synonymous with. They’re paradoxically held back by that same fan love. Sonic Mania being a good example it was nice game but far too much of the game was hurt by the fact that if you’re like some of us. You spent the 20 or so years leading up to the release of the game habitually playing the Genesis Era Sonic games which made the game feel samey in some respects. It’s somewhat similar to the problem with indie games that are new games but ape on existing games in various aspects. |
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Tamer Sakura
Posts: 57 |
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I'll never understand people's aversion to a good formula out of contempt for "nostalgia". Sonic Mania was genuinely the best Sonic game since Sonic 3 and certainly the last good one we've had in decades. Maybe rather than framing it as pandering to nostalgia, it's acknowledging that 2D Sonic is where the series peaked at and is simply doing more of that. Not every game needs to reinvent the wheel and shake up the boat. More of the same is great, actually.
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Ryuji-Dono
Posts: 1317 |
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So... You're saying Crossworlds and Frontiers are shit then? |
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Tamer Sakura
Posts: 57 |
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Crossworlds? never played. Frontiers? Yeah, didn't like it. |
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Ryuji-Dono
Posts: 1317 |
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Well, that's the issue if you think it's an objective view. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 7260 |
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Except Mania primarily pandered to nostalgia what other reason was there for half the games levels to be slightly remixed versions of the Genesis (and one of the Sega CD’s) Zones, include the bonus levels from Sonic 3 and CD, or specifically use Sonic’s sprite from the first two games instead of his Sprite from 3? Not to mention where the series peaked at is subjective for a scant few it might’ve been the Genesis games for many others it would’ve been the Adventure Duology. Not all of us hated Unleashed when it was the newest game on the scene trying to make up for Sega’s cockup with StH06. Also there’s no contempt for nostalgia again the problem is over relying on it instead of trying something that feels new and fresh this is literally one of the reasons why many people aren’t that enthused by the Starfox 64 remake. It adds some new things like cinematics and some dialog. But it’s fundamentally the same game many played on the 64 and the 3DS. There’s of course an irony to this as the FF7 Remake and Rebirth got pilloried for not being 1:1 of the orignal game. As did Resident Evil 3’s remake.
So by this logic people should stop complaining about Call Of Duty, Madden, or stop complaining about IPs that feel too similar to other IPs in certain respects (ironic given the history of the gaming industry) which was one of the criticisms Concord caught flack for? |
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Zased
 Posts: 155 |
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Looking back, yeah I can see that I haven't really truly loved a Sonic game since Adventure 2. After that the series pivoted to games which ranged from bad to settling for mediocrity. I'm not someone who would say Sonic can't work in 3D but there's always a new gimmick they try to push in each game it seems like rather than just focusing on making a good one. Whether you want to call it nostalgia or not it's not a coincidence that Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania were the two games fans can universally call good after the Dreamcast and they both focused on remembering what the previous great games of the series did. Ironically they did end up trying to modernized Generations with the Shadow re-release much to people's displeasure.
The new Star Fox sold better than Command which did something new. It also sold much better than Zero but that was more of an issue of Zero being an Wii U game. I personally think the new Starfox is bad because the art design is ugly and the voice acting is bland not because it's just a remake of 64. People love the gameplay of 64 and it's often called the best game because of it. You don't have to remake a game to just copy the gameplay. It's just remakes are very easy and lazy design so they're popular. Look at Resident Evil. Sure the remakes of the older games are there but they use the same gameplay style for the newer ones like Village and Requim. And Capcom are masters of reusing gameplay styles. That's why we got so many good Mega Man games back in the day where they all played the same minus a few gameplay additions but the levels and bosses were all new every game. That's how you capitalize on a winning formula and they seem to still be doing that with games like Village and Requim even if I don't like their remakes of the older games. If SEGA gave us more games like Mania with new levels each time that'd be just fine with me and I'd love for them to reuse the engine. |
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Firefly251
Posts: 459 |
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Issue w/ underselling Crossworld is.....Mario Kart exists.
Most people KNOW mario kart but few even know sonic racing exists. Hilarious aprt is this generations Sonic vs Mario racing game is actually in Sonic's favor as Mario's is just unfun as tryhards ruined it. Issue is nothing about game but just fact people won't give it a chance. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 7260 |
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If remakes were that easy to create we’ve already have those KOTOR remakes that was announced years ago while the XIII remake wouldn’t have bombed. As for lazy design I would more apply that to some of these safe 2.5 D remakes of games that were already 2D to start with. Though with how visually bland or outright ugly some of these games looked in the orignal incarnation I can give some of them a free pass.
That’s also one of the ways in how you eventually cause a series to become overexposed and stale. Which eventually may cause you to put an IP on pause for a few years. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5739 |
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What fans need to understand when they say that fans make better Sonic games than SEGA. Is that they are talking about games made by them, specifically for them. Of course, you are going to always think it's better when it fits neatly into your own idealised version of what a Sonic game is.
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