Forum - View topicProblematic theme: Historical
|
|
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Fangor
 Posts: 2 Location: Sweden |
|
||
|
I have come upon this problematic situation before and here I am again.
The theme Historical is what is giving me problems, or rather what animes it should apply to. My latest conundrum is: Urda (ONA) anime#2613 A Historical anime is set in a period of time in actual history or has strong ties to a specific epoc. So far so good. A Historical anime is based on actual events in history or portray believable "could have happened" scenarios. Now it becomes a question of the superficial. Where is the border between Historical and Fantasy? Should an anime that is inspired by history have a History theme? Is Record of Lodoss war historical? It has many medieval elements. Most who have seen it would say no! It just looks medievalish, in some parts. Then what about Urda? It is "set" in our world in 1943 Germany. But if you really look at it, it has absolutely nothing to do with any real history. Does the fact that it has Nazis in it make it historical? Even if these Nazis only connection to real world nazis is that they look kindof similar? No characters, plot, story or even feel has any serious resemblance to something historical. It's really just poor sci-fi action drivvel through and through. So where do we draw the line? When does the connection to History become so fuzzy and unimportant that it doesn't really have anything to do with it anymore? I could just settle for the fact the series says it is set in a historical point in time and be done with it. Wash my hands of it and say that if it's not historical then that's the makers fault, not mine. But I would still feel like I'm committing some kind of sin against the sacred concept of history. What really gets to me is if we put the theme Historical on something like Urda, then the people who are really interested in history will see it and become extremely disappointed. "If you want something historical, then Urda is what you should watch!" That just rings very false to me. I can agree with it having a Military theme. But saying it's historical is like saying Scrapped Princess is historical. Should the themes be a guide to the users or is it there for the sake of the anime itself? Does anyone have any opinions on how the theme Historical should be defined and/or used? |
|||
|
|||
Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
|
||
|
Here are my thoughts on what should define "Historical". And remember, just because something has a single theme, people should also look at the genre(s) and other theme(s) of an anime, not make their decision off of a single theme.
Series must take place in the "real world" or a possible past/alternate past. Lodoss War, taking place in an obviously fantasy world would not fit. However, series like Fullmetal Alchemist: The Conqueror of Shambala, Chrno Crusade, or Haruka: Beyond the Stream of Time would. The former two are much easier to define as "alternate past," as they take place in the much more "recent" past, and we know that these events didn't happen. However, in book publishing, books with alternate retellings of historical events are still considered "historical fiction", so we have to include them. For the latter, that's more of a sticky point. Fushigi Yuugi, a series with a similar base to Haruka, I would not include historical of a theme to, because, even though it [supposedly] takes place in Ancient China, there is very little historical base to it to prove it. It could take place in a fantasy world, and there would be little different except for the clothing styles. Haruka, on the other hand, I would include historical for. Officially, the series takes place in an "alternate world that appears to be the same as Heian-era Kyou", however, that alternate world is highly accurate to actual Heian-era Kyou, including clothing designs, architecture, and even the appearance of actual historical figures, such as Abe no Seimei, as well as mythological creatures believed to interact with people in those days. No, someone looking for something historically accurate probably wouldn't like the series, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed as historical. |
|||
|
|||
|
Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3817 Location: Montreal |
|
||
|
My thoughts on the "historical" theme are pretty much along the same lines as Dessa. Historical doesn't mean just "looks like ancient times"; it has to refer to actual historical persons, events or places. It's not enough to look like ancient China or look like medieval Europe, it has to *be* ancient China or medieval Europe, complete with names of real places & people.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wabbit98
Posts: 31 |
|
||
|
I tried the audit option the first time tonight and it gave me the question if Saiyuki is a Historical theme. Normally I would say no, but I am willing to take thoughts on that.
Ni |
|||
|
|||
|
Dessa
Posts: 4438 |
|
||
|
I would have to say no on Saiyuki... I mean... Guns and Jeeps? It might [supposedly] take place in Ancient China/India/Togenkyou, but it definitely does not.
Hmmm... perhaps we should have a theme specifically for things such as Saiyuki that are based off of classical works of literature... |
|||
|
|||
|
asterphage
Posts: 19 Location: New York City |
|
||
|
I think "(Historical) Period Setting" (with or without the word "historical", since that may have an undue implication of accuracy) and "Literary Adaptation" would probably be the most useful and descriptive ways to tag such works.
|
|||
|
|||
|
doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1732 |
|
||
I very much agree—I think you've hit the nail(s) on the head(s). 
|
|||
|
|||
|
Brda
Posts: 21 Location: Currently in China, otherwise Europe |
|
||
I like this description. And since Urda is first of all Science fiction, it can be, frankly speaking, anything; therefore I would not take the historical theme, in this case, too seriously. As for Saiyuky, it is just a variation of the “Journey to the West” story, so it is not considered to be a real (= from the real world) historical theme. I am now watching Monster which seems to be more historical and the author definitely put a lot of attention to all the details, such as places (I admire how "real" they are) and languages (notes in German, Czech, etc.). The story is a fiction, but I guess there might be some true scheme. |
|||
|
|||
rti9
 Posts: 1241 |
|
||
I disagree. This idea that "realness" leads to "historical" is nonsensical to me. The amount of detail and research on many science fiction works make them feel almost genuine, but never historical. I only read the manga but if I ask myself "would I read Monster for the historical element alone?" my answer is a solid no. The story is about Tenma who is set on the present day. Investigating the past doesn't make the plot historical in this case. |
|||
|
|||
|
Brda
Posts: 21 Location: Currently in China, otherwise Europe |
|
||
Unfortunately, I haven't read the manga yet and I am only in the middle of the anime, but I don't think I would read the manga for the historical element as well. That's why I said, it seemed more historical to me (compared to Saiyuky as an example mentioned earlier in this thread). However, I think that the details and their correctness are important part of any historical work. If I am thinking of it now, I can’t make sure if I have ever seen any really historical anime; which of course does not mean that they do not exists, it just means I may need to search more for them. 
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wabbit98
Posts: 31 |
|
||
|
I'm going to agree with Dan42 on this issue. Either based on a true story, events, or place. I doubt many mangas or animes would fit this criteria.
Ni |
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group