Forum - View topicEthicality of downloading unreleased anime?
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Prosercunus
 Posts: 19 Location: Minnesota |
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Now straight forwardly I will say that it is wrong essentially but take me for example...
I have downloaded ALOT of anime but I have also purchased on DVD any anime that I like alot, anime I would have never originally bought at all. But from downloading anime I have also not bought anime because lets face it there are alot of crummy titles out there. I am not trying to convince people downloading anime is right but what about the few (maybe) like me that use it more like a demo for a game to determine rather its junk or not. I just wanted to see if anyone has an opinion on this. |
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joel_s95387
Posts: 1804 Location: California... The Village Hidden In The Porn |
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I feel the same way you do. There is a lot of crap out there and fan-subs are great to do a test run but the problem with fan-subs is that most people don´t buy the DVDs after watching the fan-subs, even for the series they loved. I too have downloaded and purchased when DVDs are released, I watched all DBZ movies and Specials and pick them up as they are released, but again that doesn´t mean everyone will. I have friends who download anime like crazy and have no DVDs in their collections.
I´m pretty sure that most, not all but the majority, would download fan-subs if they had the chance. I currently only have dial up so I am incapable of downloading subs but I´m pretty sure I would if I had a better connection. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6921 Location: Kazune City |
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If you want to know our opinions on this matter, please, by all means, spend a couple hours of your life reading the 19 pages of this thread. To put a short summary of my stance: I download a lot of anime. I buy a lot of anime. If I like a show that I've DLed, I'll buy it (though I also buy blind or on word-of-mouth), but I'll admit, there are many shows that I've DLed or otherwise obtained that are in the "OK but won't buy" category. And let's face it, some shows in the drama/romance/cuteness category like Air, KgNE, Kanon, and Aishiteruze Baby have a very low probability of ever being licensed, so if we want to see them, we either DL decently-subbed, not-for-profit fansubs, or buy bootleg DVDs with Engrish subtitles that benefit criminal elements.
(Lol, I should report my own post for posting in a repeated thread  )
EDIT: Apparently you can't report your own post. How amusing. Last edited by Zalis116 on Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Well I have to say that I buy anime if I did or did not watch the fansub. In some cases though fansubs have pretty much secured my purchase of some series, Mai Hime for example. I can't wait to have it on DVD and have high quality surround sound, cool menus, secure packaging, extras, a dub, etc. in addition the good feeling of knowing the money I spent goes to those people who made it and supports them in making even more cool new anime, instead of a cd with the words "Mai Hime" written on it with a marker. Needless to say, I wouldn't have had even as close to as much initiative to buy it or possibly may have not even bought it at all, if I hadn't seen the fansub. Just an example of a way fansubs help anime. Of course there are also ways that they hurt the industry like when people who originally bought DVDs are introduced to fansubs and then never purchase an anime DVD again. So it goes both ways.
There are a bunch of repeated threads; there's more than one of that avatar thread too. I think it's ok a long as they're both not being actively discussed at the same time. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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The ethics are 100% identical to the ethics of Tivo. If you have, or condone the use of a Tivo (or other DVR device), then by proxy you are condoning the downloading and viewing of fansubs.
Now, if you then copy those downloaded fansubs onto a DVD, then you could be condoning devices such as the Phillips DVD Recorder devices they sell at Best Buy, and that would be wrong. If you are the sort that buys the full seasons of his favorite shows on DVD, then by all means also buy those same episodes of anime when they come out on DVD, it's only fair. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8204 Location: England, UK |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Oh great, here we go again.
If the creators of the art do not get anything from your use of what they produced then it's wrong. To record something on TiVo that air time is still paid for by advertizers and that money goes to the producers of the show or the licensors who then pay the producers a large sum for that license. Fansubs send nothing back to the producers and they get nothing aside from the knowledge that people steal their livelihood and justify it with little more than "because we can". It certainly makes our domestic market look bad, of course very few things domestically look good anymore anyways. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 8017 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I don't download too much really (4 series) and before I do that I do my research so nine times out of ten I end up buying the series anyhow when it's liscensed. I also buy a lot of anime, delete them once they're liscensed, and toss the backups. I do it becuase it's really the only way to see some of these great shows I'd be missing if I just watched domestic stuff. Take Macross Zero for example, it's been out a long while but nobody seems to be interested in picking up the series and that's really a shame because it's impressive. Anyway since nobody is losing money from my downloading of unliscensed series it's a legal grey area, and I don't mind doing it. Liscensed series on the other hand are a different matter. Downloading them is just plain wrong.
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areaseven
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1487 Location: Makati, Philippines |
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Actually, Macross Zero isn't available in the US because of the neverending licensing conflict between Big West and Harmony Gold + Tatsunoko. Bandai wants to release the series, but HG wants a percentage of it, even though they have no rights to anything Macross other than the original series. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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I don't download fansubs. I've seen maybe one or two in my whole life. I used to copy anime DVD's from others or from the rental store, but I've stopped doing that as well. I still rent a lot of anime, but if I ever find myself wanting to watch something again, I'll either rent it again or buy the DVD. The only time I still copy a DVD is when I'm about to go on a holiday or maybe a business or training trip. Then I can simply take the copies without having to worry about losing or damaging the originals.
I think downloading anime for free and copying anime DVD's is wrong and since the anime market is relatively small, it's probably impacted by pirating more than traditional Hollywood content. I know a lot of people who claim that fansubs only help the market, but that doesn't jive with my experience. If I can get something for free, I'm probably not going to buy it a second time just because I like what I already have. I doubt most people would buy less anime if fansubs simply disappeared. In fact, my guess is that they would eventually buy more anime. |
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Iemander
 Posts: 443 |
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I think people just need to take responsibility for their actions really. You can cheat and steal whatever you want, just don't come whining later on when you find yourself in court facing a billion charges.
I do not however have any problems with people who actually know what they're doing. They "steal" software, anime, whatever, they admit they're doing it and are willing to face the consequences. However, I completely loath everyone who keeps looking for pathetic excuses. People saying stuff like "I'm doing it because it costs too much and they don't deserve it!" or "I don't have any choice! My mommy won't let me pay the bill" is just proof what sorry little beings they really are. Not to mention all of the people taking things for granted. "Ow God no! *random American distribution company* licensed my favorite anime series! Boo on them! Now there aren't any fansubs anymore!" Or "Those fuckers put *random copy protection* on that piece of software! Those bastards! Now I can't get that for free anymore!" Those people are the ones I just can't stand. Little children who frankly have no idea at all of what they're doing and of which most are even actually expecting publishers to make it easy for them. |
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remember love
 Posts: 764 Location: Germany |
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Well, Like I said before I don't download fansubs for morally I find it wrong. And I believe any excuse is crap. But I also will respect the people who do download them, I won't bug you about it. You know you're doing something illegal and I don't need to tell you but on the same hand I won't listen to anything you have to say about it and I don't need people telling me their excuses...
Excuses like I don't have the money for it or anything else I think are just bullcrap. Figure a way of getting a hold of the anime you want. Importing, go to Japanese get the anime that way if you can't import, if you're too young to go to Japan then you can wait till you're older. And the excuse "I don't speak Japanese"....well...I would then say learn. It's hard to learn another language I know but like I said no excuse works for me when it comes to fan subing. Now, if I had to choose between which is worse of wether or not gett fansubs when it not license or getting when it's licensed. I would diffenetly say when it's licensed it is the worse. But even if it isn't licensed it still wrong in my opinion. |
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Iemander
Posts: 443 |
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I think everyone needs to decide for themselves what exactly is right or wrong. However, responsibility must always be taken. Do not expect any sympathy from me when you're stealing everything Anime related and some kid steals your car. You've decided for yourself that stealing "isn't a bad thing", thus you shouldn't complain when someone steals something from you. You're just lying to yourself if you start whining, and that my friends makes a defunct human being. |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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"Ethical" people always baffle me, do you also pay 500$ for photoshop?
Meh, my stance is untill I see crying orphans I don't care, the anime creators aren't exatcly going hungry. If the dub and extras are worth it I'll buy it but I simply have better things to spend my money on that anything but the most superb of anime. I guess its like stealing from Best Buy, you don't do it because you don't want the trouble, but do you really give a damn about that miniscule loss of money for a multi-billion corporation? |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=7729
Do you get paid for doing your job? Why should you get paid your worth if they don't get paid theirs? If you don't want to spend the money to pay for the use of something people worked hard for then you don't deserve it. It's not so much the single person but the attitude, an attitude that's spreading, amongst a large number that starts to cause a problem and unchecked it only gets worse. If you don't respect other peoples property why should I respect yours? Why should I care about your home? Computer? Job? Given your response I should care less and screw you over any chance I get. There's a reason things like ethics exist, it's what allows for people to co-exist, for without it your neighbor would put a bullet in your head the moment you looked at him funny or people would break in your house and take what they want because why should they care enough to respect what you own? Stealing doesn't just impact the company, it's a domino effect and if you had the slightest knowledge of how economics work you'd have a better idea the full impact. I'm glad to know though that you see others as little more than slaves there to serve you, to be paid only when you feel like it. |
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