Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works
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Videogamep
 Posts: 565 Location: CA |
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Animerican14
You might want to add some spoiler tags there. Some of the stuff there might be spoilers for the Heaven's Feel movie(s). |
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Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Oh, might have there been some Heaven's Feel spoilers? I thought I technically didn't directly refer to anything Heaven's Feel-specific, but just stuff already shown in Fate/Zero. The review for episode 15 itself said "Warning: this review contains major Fate/Zero spoilers" without spoiler-tagging anything, so I thought that talking of things that were already mentioned in Fate/Zero, including AG, was completely fair-game.
But yeah, I can at least put a cautionary note near the start of that little essay, and spoiler-tag a bit as well. |
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Muphrid
 Posts: 35 |
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Ms. Ekens, I think what happened is that Shinji refers to Gilgamesh by name when asking him to kill Rin and Shirou, and that's what they're supposed to be going off of during the later conversation about the mythological figure.
Granted, I don't consider that be a graceful revelation of the character's identity, either. |
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 1440 |
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Not exactly, but this episode does at least drop his name. IIRC Shinji shouts his name when he orders him to kill Shirou and Rin. It's convenient for us to finally use his name unspoiled, but yeah, doesn't really work as a dramatic or important revelation. Weird choice |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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No, that is not what he said. He said that good and evil is of equal value and right or wrong is determined by whether you regret your actions. Basically - you're the measure of right and wrong based on your own moral intuition and not some kind of outside authority telling you what's good and evil. Not that convoluted. |
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Gabbomatic
 Posts: 74 |
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Thanks! I'll ask to get this edited in. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I'm still hoping to see some sort of Gilgamesh's backstory. It's true that in his epic he is pretty arrogant and pretends to obtain eternal youth and attaining great glory and at first he was kind of a jerk, but his figure is equally used to portray the perfect king and hero. One of his many great feats is supposed to stand in front of an enemy army, prepared to die alongside his people, on the other hand in the epic he is shown to be having sex with women before they marry.
But in Fate, Gil's personality is more of the big phylosophic son of a bitch which is pretty commone, you can't actually tell he is Gilgamesh, just saying some grandoise stuff doesn't help at all. In fact, Gilgamesh died learning the lesson that he should not seek for eternal youth nor immortality, in Fate it seems he died shortly after Enkidu, his greatest friend, died, at that point he was the most arrogant. And his Noble Phantasm just follows the rule of the cool, it makes no sense mythically speaking. I suspect Gil's creation as character was this: "Ok so who's the oldest hero" "Let's see on google...Gilgamesh" "Ok he's the strongest and is the jerkiest jerk" And while Lancer's reappearence was excellent with Shirou and Tohsaka, the follow-up was pretty weird-paced. |
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Muphrid
Posts: 35 |
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Yeah, I hope they let you do so; it would be frustrating and pointless if a lot of other people jump in trying to invalidate your point about the reveal based on that. Like you said, ufotable had to invent a good reveal for it (for something that would've already been known at this point in the VN), and like with the revelation of Berserker's identity two episodes ago, it wasn't all that it could be. |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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It's been patched in, no worries~
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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The original Fate novel was written in nineties, so no Google. While the reasoning for his inclusion most likely was "he's the oldest", the point was to have a Servant that would be more exotic and ancient than Saber or Berserker. Gilgamesh obviously is not written to shoot swords out of portals, but iirc there are references in some texts about him being the owner of all the treasures of the world. The idea for all the Servants was to loosely adapt the myth, but develop the characters for the purposes of Fate's story. As for Unlimited Blade Works, the reason for his inclusion as the original hero should become clear at the end of the story. If you want Gil's backstory, you'll probably have to learn Japanese and play Fate/Extra CCC. Although, who knows, they might include some things in this anime as well. There was already a likely reference to Enkidu when Gil killed Ilya's maids. |
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Videogamep
Posts: 565 Location: CA |
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I've heard a lot of criticism like this for Nasu's style of dialogue, but for whatever reason it's never bothered me. It does tend to be wordy and overly philosophical, but I actually kind of like it. It seems like it's just a "love it or hate it" type thing (although I'll admit most of the writing in the H-scenes is laughable). |
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鏡
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I know you tend to avoid reading anything comprehensible or thematically relevant into the "philosophy" in Fate but Souichiro's framing of "things that one doesn't regret" as a fundamental value and goodness, and view of good and evil as essentially moot categories, is a pretty important contrast to the other main philosophies driving Fate and especially the one embodied by Archer, hence his look of conflicted disdain as he walks away. spoiler[Kuzuki's speech is essentially a condemnation of Archer's entire life and character but because Archer is fueled by a tension between righteousness, regret and a desperation to be free at this point he knows that Kuzuki is right, even if on a fundamental moral level disassociated from his self (in the way we see Shirou is in this episode) he disagrees.]
It's too bad we didn't get a flashback to Kuzuki's past explaining the state of his self, because his backstory is pretty hilarious/interesting and explains everything about him. Last edited by 鏡 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:22 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Caramichael
Posts: 114 |
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Well concerning the reveal, I don't know why people are so upset by that.
Since the begining, it is Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works. People should know that it is the second arc, all the more when Deen already made a film out of it. At this point in time, the people who watch the anime know what they are going into, and if they watched either of the multiple series, wether FSN, FZ or even CP, they know who Gil is. Personnally, I am happy that they didn't get all "big revelation" on it. We know, he is Gil, he is overpowered, now let's get to other more interesting things. |
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Valhern
Posts: 916 |
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Just a saying, I know the novels are pretty old. And I know they're not supposed to be an exact copy of the myth, but in comparison, Gilgamesh lacks a lot. Medea has a lot from her counterpart, it's even adressed the debate of how you interpret her myth, Berserker is clearly a take from Heracles' madness when he killed his wife and two sons. And of course Saber is the most interesting one. While almost all Servants have a pretty nice connection with their myths and if you know your stuff you recognize them, having Gilgamesh on the short end is kind of like a waste IMO. And I'm aware there is some backstory of Gil but like hell I'm gonna learn japanese to read it. |
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konqueror
Posts: 129 |
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Now I doubt if Gabriella read the VN or just the wiki, because damn she doesn't like the show and for her everything is flawed, and if she did read it, how was she able to finish it if everything is so bad? I can also tell that she obviously didn't pay attention when Shinji said "Kill them, Gilgamesh!", and that was when they knew who he is, maybe she was too busy checking her twitter account or something. But worry not, then she added the Addendum that you can read like: "m-my point is still valid! Teehe~ ヾ(*ゝω・*)ノ"
This is no different that a review wrote by a dissatisfied MAL user. You people at ANN should at least have one person who didn't watch/read the old stay night nor Zero, that way we would actually get a nice review from a completely different and fresh point of view. And she should also stop with the spoilers. We get it, you read(?) the VN, but don't go posting so many key stuff like it's nothing. If people asked me for a good site to get info on UBW, the last option would be this one. Last edited by konqueror on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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