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INTEREST: Girls und Panzer, Shirobako Director Comments on Politics


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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5046
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:26 pm Reply with quote
Awesome. Nice to see someone stand by their values even if it puts their career at risk.

People should be allowed to say whatever they want. But that also means they must suffer the consequences of what they say. Personally one way or another on this issue doesn't make me dislike an artist or their work. If he was pushing for some racist/sexist/inhumane then I would understand why people would say things like "I'll never support you again". But this specific topic is something isn't inherently evil like those examples. It's just something people disagree on.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 4493
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:53 pm Reply with quote
There is a difference in expousing political beliefs in a children's anime like Pokemon and in a more mature anime like Girls und Panzer. I could care less about political dialogue in most of the anime I watch. But when you are doing it in children's anime or cartoons, then you are plain up trying to brainwash little kids to your way of thinking.

Honestly, does any parent want their little kids to hear political messages in what is supposed to be their innocent children's anime and cartoons. Especially, if it is messages that they might disagree with.
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cookiemanstah



Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:00 pm Reply with quote
this is pretty badass and concerning. It does validate my speculations and concerns over how the anime industry is a twisted cesspool on life support owed to its ethics and consumers.

But this guy probably just ruined his whole goddamn career to come out with this since Japan is very barbaric with its gossip culture. The kind of thing that ensures you might never live a decent life if people in power over you spread rumors or word of your background (see Persona 5). So was it worth it?
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 739
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:08 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
There is a difference in expousing political beliefs in a children's anime like Pokemon and in a more mature anime like Girls und Panzer. I could care less about political dialogue in most of the anime I watch. But when you are doing it in children's anime or cartoons, then you are plain up trying to brainwash little kids to your way of thinking..


Since you apparently didn't read the article: He didn't espouse a political opinion in the show. He did it on his own personal twitter page. Unless you're insisting anyone who makes anime shouldn't be allowed to have political opinions as a private person on their own social media account, kindly go back and actually read what was reported.
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Narutofreak1412



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 312
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:11 pm Reply with quote
I think it's unprofessional.
People are free to voice their political opinions, but I think the social media sites of series they work on and their personal ones should be seperate.
If they post personal opinions, especially if it's something like politics which easily gets controversial, on an official account of some series, it appears like the whole staff behind that work voices that.
Also, stuff like anime, manga, games, movies and so on are entertainment and many read or watch them to take a break from all the real life stress, so visiting the page of one of your favorite works to see if there's something new and then read opinions about political issues feels like a slap in the face.
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lossthief



Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 739
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:14 pm Reply with quote
Narutofreak1412 wrote:
I think it's unprofessional.
People are free to voice their political opinions, but I think the social media sites of series they work on and their personal ones should be seperate.
If they post personal opinions, especially if it's something like politics which easily gets controversial, on an official account of some series, it appears like the whole staff behind that work voices that..


Well good news: He didn't tweet anything from any "official" account. He tweeted from his own personal twitter account, so you can stop your handwringing.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5046
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:38 pm Reply with quote
lossthief wrote:
Narutofreak1412 wrote:
I think it's unprofessional.
People are free to voice their political opinions, but I think the social media sites of series they work on and their personal ones should be seperate.
If they post personal opinions, especially if it's something like politics which easily gets controversial, on an official account of some series, it appears like the whole staff behind that work voices that..


Well good news: He didn't tweet anything from any "official" account. He tweeted from his own personal twitter account, so you can stop your handwringing.


Exactly and that's exactly what I meant. As long as it's on their personal account, it should be fair game
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 8912
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:41 pm Reply with quote
I think people are being confused by the last paragraph, which states that Satoshi Yamamoto, not Tsutomu Mizushima, used images from his manga art with his statement, but will now refrain from mixing the two.

It's cute how people think children's fare doesn't contain messages... GeGeGe no Kitaro is a fine example of how mistaken that idea is, but seriously, all children's shows from Sesame Street on up, impart some sort of lessons on how to behave or how the world should work. I guess somehow that's not "political" or "brainwashing" as long as it successfully reinforces the status quo.
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CrypticPurpose



Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Good on him - just because he's in a position where people might actually listen doesn't mean he should be forced to keep got mouth shut. If it was something seriously controversial that might harm good employers, that's different, but generally, he should be allowed to have an opinion, and allowed to voice it if he feels strongly on the subject. I know Japan takes their 'not rocking the boat' very seriously, but there need to be limits.
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Sakura Shinguji



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Mizushima aside, I don't know why anyone *would* be in actual support of this revision, other than career prosecutors.

Unfortunately when it comes to situations like this, things leave the realm of the more logical "is this right or not" and veer rapidly into the territory of tribalistic points-scoring, even if people don't fully understand what they're scoring points for (and too often ironically end up working against their own best self interests), and possibly only because it's a way to (try to) get attention. Certainly in this particular case there's also the societal pressures hanging over everyone's heads to not speak out about even relatively benign issues like this proposed revision.

The most amusingly Japan thing about all of this of course is that the legislature is only pushing for a 2-year increase on the age limit. Other countries or governing bodies interested in such a power grab, however limited in scope, would almost certainly have proposed lifetime appointments.
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1081
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:23 pm Reply with quote
It would be great to have some anime that are more overtly political. I bet there would be a pretty big market in Japan for a "Japanese South Park" type of show that tackles current events with humor.

Ironically, though, the international market might be an obstacle to that. Would there be much of an audience outside Japan for a show that does an episode about the Japanese public prosecutor's office law?
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encrypted12345



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 597
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:46 pm Reply with quote
Personal political opinions apart from the final work, I don't care. Political opinions within the final product? Sure, as long as it fits the story they are trying to tell. In the case of the Pokemon manga, his political opinion didn't really fit the context of that work, so I think him apologizing for that was fair. There's nothing wrong with anime that tackles politics though like the original Gundam, which referenced Adolf Hitler, or Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, which referenced illegal immigration into Japan by Filipinos.
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doctordoom85



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 2019
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 10:02 am Reply with quote
Yeah, "fans" who get upset if a creator voices a political opinion even if it's outside of their work come off as so spoiled. This video's ending pretty much sums it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggpZnR9NMEA "Hey, you gave me a lot of happiness throughout the years, so apparently that means I get to decide what you can or can't say!" Like, talk about ungrateful.

Like, if you think the particular political opinion they said is something that is legit cruel or such and you no longer want to follow their work, okay that's fine, but acting like they shouldn't voice any political opinion AT ALL is unfair.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3199
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:24 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
It's cute how people think children's fare doesn't contain messages... GeGeGe no Kitaro is a fine example of how mistaken that idea is

Having been a devoted Kitarou fan for the past two years, I had to laugh when I read that line, too. Here's what Japan's kids were watching at 9 am on Sundays:

https://www.crunchyroll.com/gegege-no-kitaro/episode-20-memories-of-the-yoka-776051
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Dalek-baka



Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 32
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:24 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Gina Szanboti wrote:
It's cute how people think children's fare doesn't contain messages... GeGeGe no Kitaro is a fine example of how mistaken that idea is

Having been a devoted Kitarou fan for the past two years, I had to laugh when I read that line, too. Here's what Japan's kids were watching at 9 am on Sundays:

https://www.crunchyroll.com/gegege-no-kitaro/episode-20-memories-of-the-yoka-776051
Or last few seasons of Precure - "boys can be princesses too", showing corporations as evil ones and even slight anti-government attitude.

If anything it's shows for adults that are afraid to do that, while those for kids just go for it.
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