Forum - View topicDeath Note dub and its [adult swim] broadcast.
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Dune
Posts: 223 |
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A lot of the fun in Death Note comes from its unique rules. We have a great cat and mouse game between two extremely powerful people with specific conditions- like finding the face and name of your opponent in order to kill them. The first episode I saw of this show was the one where Kira goes after Raye Penbar's fiancee. I was hooked partly because the rules are just so different from other detective programs.
Btw, wrt the storyline, here's an interview with the director of the Death Note films. He likens the story to Crime and Punishment, and it is surprisingly easy to see how Light compares to Raskolnikov. They share the same goals, worldview, and means (setting themselves up as supermen to rid the world of the wicked). Actually, he's probably the one prominent literary figure most identical to Light. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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There are a lot of interesting questions posed by the series, many of which I can't go into fully because of the "no spoilers" policy, but a lot of it has to do with whcih side is right, Kira, or the law? Do Kira's actions make society better, is it a justifiable way of achieving goals? does society deserve better? Thre are very few moral absolutes in Deathnote, and they tend to shift a bit throughout the series. I think that the primary theme of the series would be "does the end justify the means?" |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 5320 |
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Yes, the "end justifying the means" question was at the forefront during the first few episodes of the series, but it quickly shifted into one huge mess of circuitous logic. "If I answer yes, he'll know I'm Kira, but maybe he was expecting me to do so, so if I answer no, he'll know I'm Kira, but wait, maybe if..." That same sort of scenario is presented again and again, and it's not really "intelligent writing" in any sense of the word. Hell, just look at the method by which Light rigged up his desk drawer to hide the Death Note...hideously over-complex, much? Both Light and L seem to almost completely ignore what's essentially one of the fundamental principles of the world: keep it simple, stupid. And even moving beyond that, we have the other elements of the series that just don't seem to make any sense at all in the grand scheme of things. Like, say, L's continued existence that Light has to be Kira, even without a shred of evidence to support it (which is rather ironic, given the reality of the situation). Or, say, the fact that Misa was in freakin' bondage gear for three freakin' months, or that Light and Mr. Yagami were holed up in jail cells for those same three months without ever doing so much as calling home. Putting the over-the-top animation/music sequences completely aside, these are the elements of the series that have produced the most random amusement for me, and have in my opinion utterly destroyed the credibility of anyone who tries to push the show as an "intensely dramatic" or "intelligently realistic" series.
Note again that all of this is coming from my exposure to the TV run alone, and also note that nothing I've said implies that I'm not finding the show enjoyable. On the contrary, I'm having a ton of fun with it, but it seems like I'm doing so for reasons other than the majority of opinions about the show would suggest. |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Um, there's been plenty of evidence for L to suspect Light. Not enough to convict him, but definitely enough to have him as a suspect.
She was allowed to have bathroom breaks and things of the sort. And Mr. Yagami was told by L that he would keep his cell phone on and keep in contact with his family and people on the outside world during his confinement. |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Put spoiler tags around them, then. That's no excuse for not having much to say. That's the exact question I said was posed in the premise of the show, and batted around a bit in the first few episodes. Beyond that, it's never explored. It's just a "Well, whatever you think is okay" policy. I have friends who both abhor Light as a brilliant sociopath, and adore him as a hero who just went bad due to unfortunate circumstances. Neither is embraced by the story. Ohba himself says he thinks Light is incredibly evil and depraved, and equalizes his worldview most with Near's. But he says he tried not to let his worldview impact the story at all. Which just reinforces what I keep saying: It's a smart action show with an intriguing premise, but not a great stomping ground for moral themes. The idea itself is open to debate, but the worldview of the show is totally ambiguous because the story is action-based, crime show material, and not very realistic dramatically. That being said, I think it's quite unfair of Top Gun to say it's not a smart show, or being overcomplicated makes it not work dramatically. The intricacies and over-the-top organizations on the over-the-top case make it MELODRAMATIC, but still enjoyable. So, in essence, not to be taken seriously to have deep discussion over, but to be hailed as a great show, yeah, of course. Think about famous action movies like "The Fugitive." It shares several traits with Death Note. Strong, if not fairly archetypal characters, slightly unrealistic, and not at all deep, but amazing? Intelligent? Yes. I don't see why anyone should be offended by the idea that Death Note's not much more than a slightly meatier shonen show. "Dark" does not always mean "thought-provoking." Honestly, for something to be considered deep and provocating, it would have to make the viewer disturbed or uncomfortable at some point. Death Note is a riot most of the time, and you find yourself cheering or gasping more than frozen in shock. |
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Top Gun
Posts: 5320 |
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Yes, there was evidence to peg Light as Kira, but considering that the murders continued during the period of time when Light was under 24-hour surveillance, on criminals that he would have no way of knowing the names/faces of, and especially after L's crazy "let's have Daddy Yagami shoot light" plan, there's really nothing at all anymore linking him to Kira. The only reason why L seems to be maintaining his suspicions is for the simple stubborn fact that he doesn't want to admit that he was wrong. Now, obviously, we as the viewer know that he was correct, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that any remotely sane/level-headed person in L's position would have exonerated Light months ago. I'd forgotten about Mr. Yagami being allowed to make phone calls, but I still have to question how his wife and daughter would continue to buy excuses over the course of three months without ever once trying to track him down. And as for Misa...even with the bathroom breaks, that's an obscenely long time to keep anyone bound like that, particularly if you're trying to convince the viewer that it's a rational course of action. Hell, as a friend of mine pointed out, after all that time, she'd likely have horrific sores from the constant pressure, and her legs would have become half-atrophied. 
Once again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not enjoyable at all. What I am saying is that I feel many hardcore fans of the series hold it up to be something that it's not. Before I started watching, I heard so many claims of it being "the most intelligent show ever" and things of that nature...and, quite frankly, it's not, not by a long shot. It does pull off certain plot elements very well, but it also has quite a number of logical inconsistencies and contrivances that prevent me from sticking the "intelligent" label on it. Is it different from your average Shounen Jump title? Very much so. But at the same time, it is most assuredly a Shounen Jump title, and it reminds the viewer of this fact at least once an episode. And this is just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't attach the label of "great" to the series; it's certainly quite good, but it's not up to that absolute top-tier level of series (your Bebop, Wolf's Rain, FLCL, Stand-Alone Complex, et cetera) that many people seem to want to place it at. If there's one thing that I find personally irritating, it's when people overly hype a series to an extent where it just doesn't belong (as I found out when [as] first aired Evangelion a year or two ago). The fact that Death Note currently appears right near/at the top of so many general numerical rankings lists should be evidence enough that this phenomenon is occurring here. If anything, I think it does a disservice to the series itself, because it can very easily set up a first-time viewer with expectations that the show was never meant to live up to in the first place. If Death Note's legions of fans had presented the series as a melodramatic thriller with a heaping helping of comedy, instead of the "greatest battle of wits evar," I think I'd bear a much more positive mindset as a whole toward them. |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Yeah, I'm beggining to think L is just as crazy as Light, myself. Along that he's just as stubborn.
Just like you said, it's all a matter of personal opinion. But, I would place it up with those anime. 
Well, that happens with almost everything that's popular. Take Naruto for instance, most of its fans seem to place it among the best things ever made. In the end, it's just a very enjoyable Shonen series. Though I believe that most of the overhype is due to that a great number of Naruto's fans are around 12 years of age. And as to whether it's the "greatest battle of wits evar", the series hasn't ended yet(there's 17 more episodes to go), so I'm sure that some more battle of wits are going to appear, that would have to be judged before it can decided whether or not it's the "greatest battle of wits evar." 
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I actually like this discrepancy. It shows L's true character. He is extremely arrogant, and he KNOWS Light Yagami. Even if there is no real "evidence," he's felt more connected to Light than any other foolish non-challenge he's had in the past. Even if saying "you're the first friend I've ever had" is a lie, you know from his arc here, (and episode 25's events) how much he connects to Light Yagami and is positive, from deep down in his gut, that there has to be something he's missing because Light. Is. Kira. I, L, am never wrong. For those who have read the manga up through volume 7: spoiler[What are L's last words? "I knew it! I was right! I was right! But I..." I hate that those internal lines were cut from the series. Actually, most of the few changes that were made during the series I think are worse than the manga.]
Noooo, the best stuff is up front, I'm afraid. It just gets more convoluted and less enjoyable later. The twists become more stock. But the ending is a great twist and very satisfactory, so it's worth the stale developments that occur at episode 27 or so and afterwards. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Well that's the cat and mouse game of it, the "game". The actual meaning of the series is shown in the measures Kira is willing to take to avoid getting caught, the methods L is willing to use to trap Kira, and how various levels of society react to Kira's successes and failures.
Perhaps, but it does elegantly cover all his bases. If someone had stumbled onto his Deathnote it would have been big trouble.
I would greatly suspect Light too, and I'm no genius. There was a lot of evidence that pointed to him as a likely candidate. A LOT of evidence. None of it would hold up in court, of course, but that's mainly because of the strange way that Kira can kill. If Light was a non-supernatural serial killer that would potentially leave real evidence of his crimes he would have gotten caught ages ago.
I'm pretty sure that Mr. Yagami called in to his wife about Light, and for himself before turning himself in, just "we're on business" sort of thing.
The mods around here are real whipcrackers about spoilers, even within spoiler tags. There really isn't even much point to having spoiler tags available around here.
They don't TALK about it much, but that doesn't mean it isn't explored. The viewer is left to accumulate an process the information about it on his own, rather than having it spelled out by one of the characters (although Matsuda does, occasionally).
No, all the things that originally linked him still link him, there is reason to continue to suspect him, just not reason to punish him for something they can't prove. Besides, the current working theory (close enough to the truth), is that he probably WAS Kira before being put in jail (or a direct agent of Kira of some sort), and only ceased being Kira while under incarceration, when someone else was given the ability.
It's Japan bread-winning males are often away fro their families much of the time. Besides, I gathered that even before that most of the crew was staying at L's HQ most of the time already. Again though, I DO think that the anime (vs. the manga) is agressively overdramatic, clearly they make silly things into operatic OMG! moments (like eating the chips), and that is amusing as hell, but the actually story behind that stuff is quite elegant. |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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This seems to be the general consensus about Death Note. The first half is great, but the 2nd half is where it all goes downhill. I'm going to wait until I see the whole series until I can make that assumption. But to tell the truth( SPOILER not aired in the English dub->)spoiler[ I never really liked L that much, I've been more interested in what Light does. So when L dies, I'll be waiting to see what choices Light makes, though I know the end result because I've had the ending spoiled for me( though not how it ended, just the end result).] |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Okay, next episode out: two little things.
1) Mogi sounds even more like the Little Caesar's man saying "Misa-Misa."
2) I never got why Misa shouted, spoiler["That bastard!" on discovering the Yotsuba Kira. I mean, she knows she's the second Kira, right? Why would she be disgusted if she hasn't met him yet? Just because some random shinigami told her he was a vile man? Doesn't make much sense.] Another thing...DON'T rack up fake suspense for "revealing" the Yotsuba Kira to Misa if the audience already knows it's Higuchi, writers! It worked in the manga because it hadn't been revealed yet. It was all too obvious in the anime, and Death Note gets one more overblown melodramatic scene to boot. 
EDIT: Fixed faulty spoiler tag. Oops. 
Last edited by JacobC on Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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freezespell
Posts: 127 |
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I just had to get that started, didn't I?
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Tama!Tama!Tama!
 Posts: 52 |
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I absolutely hate to watch it with these voice actors/actresses the japanese version had me hooked. The american butchering had me crying. Sorry vancouver better luck next time, good show either way and an even better manga.
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I didn't watch the Japanese version but I did read the manga. Is it butchered? Or are you just talking about the acting alone? |
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Tama!Tama!Tama!
Posts: 52 |
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In regards to the voice acting alone. Light doesn't seem to have the correct demeanor at least to me anyway, and ryuk isn't the same either even know I do not understand all of the Japanese language. The Japanese version seems to hit it in terms of how I imagine the demeanor's to be (Besides my views of how bland English is in general but this isn't the place for that) the Japanese version seems to have the right mood so I think you should definitely give it a viewing Dargonxtc. |
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