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Chicks On Anime - Fansubs (Pt 2)


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letniinside



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:25 am Reply with quote
DVDs are advantage for US residents.

Fansubs are advantage for the worlds remotest region where dvds & shipments costs 2-3 months family's daily needs.
For practicality sakes.
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Mysticmidnightmaiden



Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 123
Location: California (Bay Area)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:06 am Reply with quote
letniinside wrote:
DVDs are advantage for US residents.

Fansubs are advantage for the worlds remotest region where dvds & shipments costs 2-3 months family's daily needs.
For practicality sakes.


If it costs you that much to support your hobby, shouldn't you be working your ass off and saving your pennies instead of watching foreign animation online? Better yet, cut some more costs and stop your internet service. You've gotta have a library or somewhere you can access the internet for free or a small fee.

Just a thought.

(It just occurred to me that I'm feeding a troll. Good for me, huh...)
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:17 am Reply with quote
Bamboo wrote:
Does it really matter? If you like Naruto, then you might like Bleach. If you like CSI, then you might like Fringe.
It certainly does matter in the context of the mainstream. Marketing plays a role when it comes to shows like that. Just look at how many Naruto/Bleach cosplayers there are compared to other anime. Niche shows, on the other hand, don't have that luxury most of the time, they don't get to have marketing campaigns or TV broadcasts. TV brings up a different class of fans. Of those, only a fraction will get into niche anime, and only a fraction of those will actually buy the shows.

Last edited by crilix on Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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DonQuigleone



Joined: 31 May 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Dublin, Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:25 am Reply with quote
You still can't get any of these streaming stuff outside the USA, so what about us? What are non-americans supposed to do? I've gone to all the local stores and all the anime they sell is terrible...

Though I do think the future is merchandising, I wanna get my hands on a Macross Model kit!
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 9674

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:44 am Reply with quote
The Part 2 does not seem to have as much to talk about. Rather more about segues....


DonQuigleone wrote:
You still can't get any of these streaming stuff outside the USA, so what about us? What are non-americans supposed to do?


Support your local entities (companies, fansubbers, et al.) or convince the R1 companies that there's enough consumer support from your region to offset the added expense of extra regional license and (if necessary) translations. Other than that, unfortunately, R1 (nor any R* for that matter) does not have all the answers for the whole world (well, except maybe Japan itself).


DonQuigleone wrote:

Though I do think the future is merchandising, I wanna get my hands on a Macross Model kit!


Unfortunately, merchandising has its own red-tape hurdles that videos don't go through. Though there's still imports, but that adds to the expense.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:54 am Reply with quote
You know, I noticed Sara had very little to say this time round, but every time she spoke, I felt she spoke with wisdom and insight.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3467
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:59 am Reply with quote
Whilst I find some of the points in the article to be slightly inaccurate, I'm thankful for ANN's recognition of the international situation in light of last week's comments.

In reality many anime industries outside the US simply lack the money and fanbase for legal fansub alternatives to be economically viable. Convincing R1 companies to broaden their online scope may be the only way to go about it, but they've no need to take any interest finantially speaking. Until they do, which I cannot see happening, support for fansubs will always exist somewhere on the globe.
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letniinside



Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:39 am Reply with quote
Mysticmidnightmaiden wrote:
letniinside wrote:
DVDs are advantage for US residents.

Fansubs are advantage for the worlds remotest region where dvds & shipments costs 2-3 months family's daily needs.
For practicality sakes.


If it costs you that much to support your hobby, shouldn't you be working your ass off and saving your pennies instead of watching foreign animation online? Better yet, cut some more costs and stop your internet service. You've gotta have a library or somewhere you can access the internet for free or a small fee.

Just a thought.

(It just occurred to me that I'm feeding a troll. Good for me, huh...)


i have a job. It pays more. Im a cheap person.

i rent pc at local internet station, its cheap.

i don't have any expensive hobby's, this is my only hobby. i don't collect clothings, shoes, i don't have strenuous/ expensive sports

Fansub/ anime issues is not the mainstream problem worldwide.
Poverty, hunger, environmental changes, violence & indifference are the mainstream problems throughout the world.
don't forget about that people.

Even in the world of entertainment, anime still not in the mainstream. Gaming are ahead of anime, even at a local pc station, a lot rather go on-line gaming than watching anime.

Roughly a $10 worth of dvd can feed an entire family for 4-5 days, perhaps longer in poor countries which a lot of fansubs fans are from. Even renting a pc per hour is cheaper that the dvds, it costs just a few cents for hours of entertainment.

For practicality sakes, fansubs are good to go plus they have the highest possible quality (informative, creative & entertaining, & its free) compare to R1 dvds (boring, mistranslations, English dubbed, expensive).

Fansubs offers good quality maintaining the anime to its original japanese form quality as possible whereas the R1 dvds have a lot of changes ruining the japanese quality itself .
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Barachem



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:21 am Reply with quote
In the last thread i had some ideas for reviving the sales of anime outside of Japan while obsoleting fansubs of licensed series, namely here: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=725682&highlight=#725682
Not one reacted to my post and yet something related to it, namely the sales of merchandise as an indicator of a show's popularity, came up in the second part of this interview.
Instead you people kept roiling around about whether fansubs should stay or not and giving various reasons why they hurt or help the anime industry, going around in circles seemingly forever.

The talk shouldn't be about whether or not to tolerate/allow fansubs, the talk should be about how to effectively obsolete/marginalize fansubs by proper marketing from the anime industry.

Looking at the sales of merchandise being a good indicator of anime popularity, i think it is best to to couple the sales of anime, whether it be DVDs or HQ downloads/streams to an exclusive tangible collectible merchandise object of a series which can be had at reduced price or for free if a series is completed.
I think that will boost sales of good series more than just free streaming.

Anyway, something has to be done and endlessly bickering whether fansubs are moral/lawful does nothing than frustrate many people and spam up threads, which subsequently closed.
Let's collectively work towards an effective solution to obsolete/eliminate fansubs as much as possible.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:30 am Reply with quote
It is my wish that fansubs be obsolete/marginalized. I've been able to see "new" anime without having to resort too them, but increased streams attacks the "casual" fansub viewer.
But when those who watch them don't want to change/ give justifications to continue their habit when you give legitimate options it's hard to have a discussion.

As to merchandising, it's hard to paint a broadbrush over every product that is anime related. However it can be a measure of how popular a particular series is. But when you have an old and/or very niche show, in today's market it is very likely to fail, even if it could have the other merchandise to go with it.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 561
Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:36 am Reply with quote
Amen to Barachem's post.

LordRedhand wrote:
But when those who watch them don't want to change/ give justifications to continue their habit when you give legitimate options it's hard to have a discussion.

This is exactly what we don't want – everyone's opinion on why it's OK for them to watch fansubs. These posts just fill up threads and do nothing to contribute to the discussion. Didn't we have enough of that in the last thread?
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kefkaownsall



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:39 am Reply with quote
Just for reference, the economy falling is probably one reason for the industry failing.
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 1185
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 am Reply with quote
Barachem wrote:
The talk shouldn't be about whether or not to tolerate/allow fansubs, the talk should be about how to effectively obsolete/marginalize fansubs by proper marketing from the anime industry.

Seeing this before submit...QFT (People don't respond because you're being too logical. They would rather moralize you into submission to their viewpoint.)

.....

Bamboo wrote:

The number of anime fans is growing exponentially every year...
Merchandise sales are going up. And merchandise sales are a better barometer for fan interest than media sales....
you can't download a t-shirt.

Excellent discussion, and some new insights. Turning the discussion to business is certainly appropriate, and hopefully will reduce the amount of moralizing in the thread (sorry if that hits your ad revenue Smile)

Great to get some actual data. I recall now hearing the t-shirt analogy some time ago, but had forgotten. Also, I don't buy merchandise separate from LE DVD packages. If merchandise is selling more, and DVDs are selling less, what does that mean? It could mean that fansubs are draining sales of DVDs from the marketplace. It could also mean that Gen X and the Millenials form the bulk of anime fans and have grown up with digital distribution, now getting their entertainment more from the Internet and their cell phones than from TV or physical media. I couldn't find numbers, but I've heard that TV viewership has gone down, since the total number of hours spent online keeps rising vs. TV watching.

Exponential growth is probably an exaggeration, but a market expanding at any rate means revenue opportunity.

Sara wrote:

It's the companies' jobs to react to the market accordingly and distribute anime to as wide an audience as possible, to bring in fresh blood as Casey mentioned.

We may find the anime industry almost unrecognizable two years from now, but I suspect it will be alive and relatively well, ready to take advantage of the inevitable economic upturn. If current distribution companies close shop, there will be space for new entrepreneurs to monetize digital distribution on models that work. Assuming the Japanese are willing to work with them, those companies could be profitable without the burden of R1 DVD production expense. Crunchyroll, anyone? DVDs will still be produced, but with an even better value proposition and some new marketing techniques. Maybe even "burn on demand".

Going to be interesting, regardless...


Last edited by pparker on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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dalbkino



Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:41 am Reply with quote
Barachem wrote:
Looking at the sales of merchandise being a good indicator of anime popularity, i think it is best to to couple the sales of anime, whether it be DVDs or HQ downloads/streams to an exclusive tangible collectible merchandise object of a series which can be had at reduced price or for free if a series is completed.
I think that will boost sales of good series more than just free streaming.


That's true the DVDs that do come with tangible merchandise in the form of Limited Editions (such as the Death Note figures and Lucky Star shirts) tend to leave the shelves faster than the standard editions in the store I work at. Some consumers even steal others special ordered Limited Editions when there aren't any in stock. Which really ticked me off when I had to reorder Code Geass LE Part 3!!! Evil or Very Mad

Though I do question how they would go about giving away merchandise with streaming....
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:43 am Reply with quote
kefkaownsall wrote:
Just for reference, the economy falling is probably one reason for the industry failing.


That is a good reason why you won't see certain series come over, they have to be a hit, especially with the mainstream or enough to make a return. So it may lead to more series being streamed in a pay service or on TV in some way. Or it could lead to more "targeted" releases trying to appeal to the demographics that buy anime.


Last edited by LordRedhand on Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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