Forum - View topicMassive gaping plot holes you can/can't swallow.
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Pixelationist
 Posts: 111 Location: London, UK |
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So I've been slowly catching up with a bunch of shows that I've missed in the last 2, 3 years, and just finished Angel Beats. I'm no Key fan and remember finding Kannon unwatchable back in the days, but I did mostly enjoy Angle Beats... Until that ending.
The revelation in the last dying minutes of the show threw me off a cliff. It took a few rewinds to wrap my head around it, but ultimately I am just left with a massive wtf. spoiler[Has there ever been any official statement as to how Angel got to purgatory before Otonashi if his heart supposedly prolonged her life?] Of course the premise is high concept to begin with and not meant for any real scrutiny, and I had no problem sitting through the whole thing deliberately ignoring all the nitty-gritties of the rules, but this single plot hole is undoing the whole story for me. Typically I like the ambiguity in anime/manga and prefer narratives that leave a few things to the imagination, but I was surprised by how much I just couldn't swallow this bitter little plot hole this time. So, has any plot holes ever ruined a show for you? Or ones that you acknowledge but can gulp down regardless? |
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VORTIA
 SubscriberPosts: 941 |
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With all the nonsensical, metaphysical happenings in Angel Beats, you're letting the linear passage of time be the thing to get hung up about?
I mean, they make stuff out of mud with their minds in the universe they're in. I'm not sure that it's that much of a stretch to assume that time doesn't function the same way there either. Hell, I kind of assume the afterlife will be Chrono-static. |
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Furudanuki
 Posts: 1874 |
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I think you're creating a plot hole out of two misconceptions:
1 - spoiler[That Otonashi's soul went to the "school world" immediately after his death.] spoiler[However there is no limit to the amount of time his soul could have spent awaiting it's next incarnation, nor any reason to expect he would be aware of the passage of time while not incarnate.] 2- spoiler[That Otonashi's soul was sent to the "school world" due to his own circumstances. ] spoiler[Souls are drawn to that world because they have unresolved issues from their previous lives. Otonashi was drawn there because of Kanade's needs, not due to his own issues. There was no reason for him to be there before she arrived herself.] |
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Pixelationist
Posts: 111 Location: London, UK |
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@furudanuki
Yes, those are totally reasonable explanations, I would have no problem accepting that had they stated such. I think my problem is the fact that this was an obvious point of contention that really could have done with some explanation, however vague, yet they chose to leave it wide open. Like I said, it's not like I'm unaccustomed to making massive leaps of logic or suspend my disbelieve being an anime fan, but this specific one just marred the emotional punch line for me. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18179 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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In some cases too much explanation can ruin the established mood. The final episode of AB! is definitely one of those cases. The timing in that episode is very deliberate and carefully-paced, hence leaving no room for such an explanation.
Your reaction to that apparent issue was far from a singular one; IIRC, we had a good discussion about that in the series thread. As Furudanuki pointed out, though, it's a "hole" that can be pretty easily rationalized. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4074 |
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My own personal plot hole problem is with Scrapped Princess. Ok, picture this, we have all our main heroes stuck together on a ship, the ship gets attacked, the ship blows up.
Should be lethal, right? No, everyone survives. Including the ship {Yes, it blew up and kept on going. This is the minor problem}. But some people get seperated, somehow. They were blown out of the ship that didn't blow up? Yes? Which ones were missing? Well, the main heroine, of course and her sister, I think but they didn't end up together some somehow. Oh yeah, not only does she get away without a scratch but she also develops amnesia, the wonderful drama disease. Why does she lose her memory? Stop asking so much questions, this is a quality series. Now that's a plot hole.
Kanon 2006 is a fantastic series and is my top anime, bar none. This is the first time I've ever heard of it described as "unwatchable" {maybe I just wasn't paying attention} and I'm curious as to how you didn't like it. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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Full Metal Panic - The list of potential girls who may be Whispered handed to Gauron, who then picks Kaname from it.
How did the list get generated? We know, as the series continues, she carries Black Technology, high-tech information even Kaname admits she doesn't know how she carries it. Gauron's selection was solely to test equipment to determine if Kaname was a Whispered, which is revealed to work to identify a Whispered. We know the Whispered can resonate with each other, but it's obvious this technique wasn't used to find her. It would have defeated the whole point of Gauron's need to test her. I'd like to say there's a chance her parents were involved, but this is also removed from the dossier. Her parents are nothing special. She's also not a prodigy, so this omits her from standing out to be noticed. Ergo Proxy - Where did the second key come from? During Re-L's investigation of Vincent, we learn he's wearing a Mosk necklace, which is stamped with the numeral "I". As the story progresses, we learn the necklace is actually a key, and later learn the keys are spoiler[related to the proxies]. Vincent's key opens a door in Mosk, which shouldn't be possible, a realization we come to when the series ends and the mysterious second key is used to open Rondo. We also know the keys are unique, so taking a key spoiler[from other proxies] wouldn't open the doors to other cities. Sister Princess - How can they all be related? Wataru failed his high school entrance exam, leading him to an island school where he meets his 12 sisters. Since we know he has yet to start high school, we can assume, at minimum, he's 15 years of age (Japanese schools end in March, but start in April). For this observation, we'll give the benefit of the doubt and say he's 16, since his birth month is not known (clever, but not good enough). We also know each sister was born in a different month with Hinako being the youngest (and appears to be 4 or 5 years old). Something's broken. Considering pregnancies take 9 months, and each girl is born in their individual months, it's impossible for them to be related as at least one sister must be older. We also know there's a discrepancy in the girls themselves. If we consider the age of the girls and their birth months, it's impossible for Wataru to be the oldest. I remember doing some math with this before, and in order for Wataru to be the eldest, taking into consideration Chikage is the oldest sister, Wataru would have to be entering high school at the age of 22. Of course, there's always the reasonable assumption some are half-sisters, but I'm not getting this impression. If I think of more, I'll post them. Now, it's break time. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3872 Location: New York state. |
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1. Big example with Air: spoiler[The whole "going back through time" plot element in the final episodes.]
spoiler[Towards the second half of the series, we see Yukito sacrificing his life with his power to save Misuzu when her curse starts getting life threatening. We then see that he gets reincarnated as a crow that Misuzu owns as a pet. Just one problem with this though: this happens to take place around the time that the series starts when Misuzu meets Yukito where the crow and Yukito exist at the same time. Then to add more to this nice mess after Misuzu's death, we see that the children Misuzu waves to from the start of the series are actually her and Yukito reincarnated, again, while existing at the same time. Since when does reincarnation allow for time travel to take place?] 2. Kanon- Shiori's "illness" Shiori's story arc reveals that she is dying from some kind of fatal illness. However, she seems to behave rather normally considering we only see her going outside in a short skirted dress wearing only a shawl to stay warm in the middle of winter without any health issues and able to eat ice cream okay. |
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wcsinn
 Posts: 186 |
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Good explanations have been offered and actually they do offer an official explanation of sorts - Otonashi states that after he lost his memories he wandered before finding himself in that world. Granted, not a detailed explanation, but with a bit of imagination .... It works for me anyway. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4828 |
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While it's not exactly a plot hole, a lot of stuff in the Soul Eater anime not being explained REALLY bugs me.
1. The world itself. Is this an alternate version of Earth that's just all creepy? Is it the afterlife? If Shinigami rules it, how is everyone mortal!? 2. Human weapons. Are they born this way? If so, how? Genetics? Do the children inherit the parent traits to turn into a weapon? What determines the dominant gene? 3. How are the characters able to slip into each other's consciousness so easily? Are they psychic as well? Last but most certainly not least: 4. WHO THE F*CK IS KID'S MOTHER!? Why does Kid look like a human when his dad is a big...black thing!? And how is a form like that able to procreate with a human being!? Lol. I love this series but just ohhh myyyy gawwwwd,. EXPLANATIONS, PLEASE? Maybe I'm demanding too much from a shounen comedy....but the whole "these are just creepy awesome characters who can do creepy awesome things just because" concept is a little....insulting, I think. Even ridiculous fighting shounen anime that I hate like Naruto and DBZ provide background information!
I agree with these views. :3 |
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getchman
 Space CowboyPosts: 9120 Location: Bedford, NH |
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just go with one of the WMG's on the show's tvtropes page. it doesn't help that the first sister princess anime is a completely different world from the dating sim and the G's magazine stories, in which Wateru's dad is a diplomat and really got around, thus making all 12 girls half sisters. I tried figuring it out as well when watching the series, but i drove myself crazy thinking about it so i just decided to forget about it and just watch it.
part of the problem with Angel Beats was that it was supposed to be and written out as a 26 episode show. however, the folks upstairs told the director to cut it in half, and so the guy had to hastily rewrite the entire script. spoiler[Otanahsi died a fulfilled life. he helped the others survive and was able to fill out his donor card before succumbing to his injuries. not the best way to die, but he had no regrets, thus he didn't immediately end up in high school land. Kanade received his heart and was able to live for a little longer but she still ended up dying from an unknown cause. we can assume she died before graduating middle school since she said she had never been to a graduation ceremony before. despite getting a temporary lease on life she still wound up in high school land due to not being able to express her gratitude to the person that saved her. what we don't know is how long she was there and and how long Otanashi's soul had been wandering around before finally ending up in High School land, but upon realizing who he was and finally being able to thank the guy for his heart, she became fulfilled and finally moved on.] [EDIT: Spoiler tags for major plot spoilers are always required. This person is not the only guilty party in this thread, either. - Key] |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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I'm not sure how this counts as a gaping plot hole. Even with the Five Stages of Grief, we're never given any indication how long she's had the disease. What we do know, though, is her reason for acting normally, as it's explained in the series (spoiler[as detailed when she was about to commit suicide after meeting Yuichi.]). |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Noooooooooooo!!  Such a waste!! SUCH A WASTE. Damn those folks upstairs!! 
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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They probably got wind fans were pissed off the animation wasn't being done by KyoAni and they got scared. |
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Pixelationist
Posts: 111 Location: London, UK |
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The character design was a big factor, I mean, there are moe-blobs, and then there are the girls of Kanon. I'm not a big fan of the visual novel style self contained arcs storytelling anyway, but I think it was the utter disconnection between all the cast members that turned me off. Though this was a long time ago so I have barely any recollection. Might give it another go some time. |
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