Forum - View topic
Hey, Answerman! - Fandoms of Evil


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
supercreep



Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 520
Location: Long Island, New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:05 am Reply with quote
That was easily my favorite reaction explanation to what's going on with Flowers of Evil. People are fickle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1163
Location: North wales coast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:31 am Reply with quote
Look In my humble opinion rotoscoping is ugly, I hated it when Ralph Bakshi used it for budget reasons in his movies and i hate it now, its got nothing to do with wanting to be spoon fed the same art style. Im all for trying different things but if you make something look like a bag of arse expect people to mention it (or praise it as some people dig it, different strokes ect). Frankly its a bit snobbish to dismiss the folk who arent finding it to their taste as whiners who are upset their steady diet has been interrupted.

As it stands if they want to hit the anime with the ugly stick its fine as im enjoying the manga and no amount of experimenting with the anime is gonna change that.

Also one piece movie 6 was awesome and looked fine, the art stye in one piece is often called weird anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
supercreep



Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 520
Location: Long Island, New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:34 am Reply with quote
I semi-agree with. The only thing is that I have seen a mountain of reviews from people being overly-whiny for ridiculous reasons. The first review on Crunchyroll before the series even premiered there was: "The worst anime ever!" due totally to him not liking the change in art. Nothing about story or any other details. Worst anime ever. I've been reading so many bashing reviews that go just like that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
JoePianist



Joined: 24 Jun 2011
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:46 am Reply with quote
RAmmsoldat wrote:
Look In my humble opinion rotoscoping is ugly, I hated it when Ralph Bakshi used it for budget reasons in his movies and i hate it now, its got nothing to do with wanting to be spoon fed the same art style. Im all for trying different things but if you make something look like a bag of arse expect people to mention it (or praise it as some people dig it, different strokes ect). Frankly its a bit snobbish to dismiss the folk who arent finding it to their taste as whiners who are upset their steady diet has been interrupted.


My thoughts exactly, concerning the "Flowers of Evil" anime debate. I'm a fan of the manga myself, and I hate the rotoscoped aesthetic of the anime. But just because I voice my personal opinion about something doesn't mean I'm "whiny" or "unattunded" to things that dare to be different. I just means that I have my own preferences, just like everyone else.

If I don't like something, I'll keep saying that I don't like it---and I don't like the anime adaptation of "Flowers of Evil."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1163
Location: North wales coast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:49 am Reply with quote
supercreep wrote:
I semi-agree with. The only thing is that I have seen a mountain of reviews from people being overly-whiny for ridiculous reasons. The first review on Crunchyroll before the series even premiered there was: "The worst anime ever!" due totally to him not liking the change in art. Nothing about story or any other details. Worst anime ever. I've been reading so many bashing reviews that go just like that.


The internet is home of the most extreme reactions, anonymity and ease of access will facilitate such.

My dislike of rotoscoping has been long cultivated and like any animation technique some people have more success pulling it off than others but i always viewed it as ugly and cheating as you are basically tracing film.

lets face it its not a bad bet, worst case scenario us manga fans will just stick with the manga, some may gripe a bit. Anime fans will either drop it or find it charming and stick with it, some may even go pick up the manga too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1163
Location: North wales coast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:55 am Reply with quote
Oh and that "Take on me" music video by ah-ha is often lauded by people as a quality video so Im well aware that other folk don't share my dislike of rotoscoping.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tuor_of_Gondolin
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 2417
Location: Bellevue, WA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:02 pm Reply with quote
I can and do respect the willingness of ZEXCS to do something different, but that doesn't mean that I need to like the result. I don't. At all. It gave me a headache, it looks bad, and it invokes "uncanny valley" eeriness which I intensely dislike.

Brian said I (well, we) are "un-attuned" to rotoscoping. He is certainly correct. But the implication there is that if I were to see more of it, eventually I would become more attuned to the style and, presumably, that it would grow on me, or, at least, I would be more accepting of it. I am pretty sure that isn't the case. I doubt that any amount of watching rotoscoped anime would lead to me finding it more acceptable or any less ugly or unpleasantly eerie.

I do respect ZEXCS for trying something different, and it certainly caused their title to get a lot more attention than it would've otherwise. But I am not watching Flowers of Evil, nor would I recommend it to anyone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime
angelmcazares
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1753
Location: Iscandar

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Brian Hanson wrote:
A lot of my personal problems with "moe" shows is that they simply look boring. Flowers of Evil never looks boring at all; it's unsettling, it's unnervingly realistic, and it gives it a distinct edge and atmosphere that's completely different from every other anime that's set in a Japanese High School.


Well said Mr. Answerman! We need more anime producers that take risks to deliver something different. I am liking Flowers of Evil, and I hope the story and characters continue to be appealing throughout the anime series.


Question of the Week: The only thing I have ever imported is the BD box set of Space Battleship Yamato, which I am very proud of. I also pre-ordered Time of Eve from TRSi.

I like the idea of importing, but I would like to see more volumes and sets English subtitled. Bandai Visual and Aniplex are doing a decent job subtitling some of their releases, but other companies should do the same. I have seen the releases of Chuu-2 and From the New World; they look amazing. Too bad they are not subtitled.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3118

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:14 pm Reply with quote
I was also disappointed and agree that the rotoscoping is ugly. But more than that, I found it distracting. It enters into 2D uncanny valley, like watching animation of quick outline real-life sketches in drab colors.

Part of the distraction for me also comes from having way too much mundane motion, all the little tiny movements in other people we normal filter out of our attention in real life, now captured and brought to focus with rotoscoping

The irony is that it is not cheap. You need a slew of live actors AND you have to retrace the frames.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:42 pm Reply with quote
With enough time and effort Flowers of Evil could have been great, even with this style.

But it doesn't. It had the balls to attempt a daring style but not the means to execute it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kikaioh
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 641
Location: Antarctica

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I'm sure most of you already know this, but for those that don't: "Light Novels" are called such because they're meant to be, well, light. Breezy, entertaining, pleasuring reads that don't necessarily upset or challenge their readers. Here in America, we call that "Best-selling fiction."


I laughed so hard at this, I could almost see Groucho Marx delivering the punch-line and wagging his cigar. Laughing

I also agree with Brian's response to Aku no Hana, which was a good reaction I think to the controversy it brought up in parts of the fandom. FWIW, I personally think the rotoscoping looks great, so I think whether you like it or not is ultimately a subjective opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1163
Location: North wales coast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:51 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
I was also disappointed and agree that the rotoscoping is ugly. But more than that, I found it distracting. It enters into 2D uncanny valley, like watching animation of quick outline real-life sketches in drab colors.

Part of the distraction for me also comes from having way too much mundane motion, all the little tiny movements in other people we normal filter out of our attention in real life, now captured and brought to focus with rotoscoping

The irony is that it is not cheap. You need a slew of live actors AND you have to retrace the frames
.


All I know is that when wizards was denied a budget increase they turned to rotoscoping to do the battle scenes. He saved even more money by using stock footage from WW2 although that tied into the plot of the film anyway. I guess as with most things its how you do it that makes the difference but for me its a low ranked technique. Once you select it you are limited in your motions and proportions and it robs a little of the freedom that other types of animation provide.

That however is only a concern for those creating it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1163
Location: North wales coast

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:53 pm Reply with quote
Kikaioh wrote:
Quote:
I'm sure most of you already know this, but for those that don't: "Light Novels" are called such because they're meant to be, well, light. Breezy, entertaining, pleasuring reads that don't necessarily upset or challenge their readers. Here in America, we call that "Best-selling fiction."


I laughed so hard at this, I could almost see Groucho Marx delivering the punch-line and wagging his cigar. Laughing

I also agree with Brian's response to Aku no Hana, which was a good reaction I think to the controversy it brought up in parts of the fandom. FWIW, I personally think the rotoscoping looks great, so I think whether you like it or not is ultimately a subjective opinion.


And that my friend is how you can tell its art Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DTJB



Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 608
Location: Dubuque, IA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:54 pm Reply with quote
Meh, Flowers of Evil looks good, like something Mamoru Oshii would have made.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DKL



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1859
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:14 pm Reply with quote
DTJB wrote:
Meh, Flowers of Evil looks good, like something Mamoru Oshii would have made.


Honestly, even people like Oshii and Hiroshi Hamasaki need the animation to have "pretty" looking pictures (Hamasaki in particular, probably because he's worked under people like Yoshiaki Kawajiri).

They probably wouldn't have chosen an art style like this.

That said, I'm surprised that people on the "I don't like it" side never bring up Masaki Yuasa's work to talk about "unpretty" art done right.

His stuff seems to be more about the interesting movement than the actual look of the characters.

The other thing is that, because it's mostly not rotoscoped (from what I can understand), if at all, a lot of the movement is based on the ingenuity of the animators.

As for me, I like the "movement" of the characters in Aku no Hana because of its expressiveness... there's so many subtle details contained in the movement that a lot of shows can't begin to emulate.

But I mostly feel like this is attributable to the direction of the live-action actors they were referencing rather than what the animators were doing... and this is very different from your regular anime, where animators are a large part of the acting.

It comes into question why this is "anime", but how many people in anime do you know have actually ventured out of "anime"?

(Oshii... Otomo... Yamakan, I think?)

Hasn't it occurred to people that, maybe, Hiroshi Nagahama is still very interested in "anime"?

But then, maybe he's not anymore and he's trolling all of us. I don't know.

As for the art, I don't know... whatever, someone else figure that out for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 1 of 8

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group