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REVIEW: Bleach DVD Box Set 8


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barrelroller



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:27 pm Reply with quote
My thoughts exactly. It's just a huge shame that this arc get's interrupted twice by 20+ episode long fillers. And by twice, I mean 40+ episodes of alternative world fillers and a handful of random fillers in this current arc as well.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Nice to know that when Bleach switches gears the effects take notice instantly, not gradually(Naruto, wink, wink... then again, the campiness was always there! Anime hyper).

Good review Carl(as always). Also my hats of to you Shiro Sagisu for being, perhaps the most consistent element of the show. Technical wise.
I've been thinking of picking this back up again, but I said I would once ANN reviewed another set(last review being Dec.), so this is relatively good timing.
And of course Sheh kicks butt as Orihime; one of her bests.
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Key
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:44 pm Reply with quote
I have now seen up through episode 203, and there's no question in my mind that episode 141 is the single best episode of the series' first two centuries. I fully agree that it's a shame that it requires muddling through so much substandard content to get through, but bright spots like that episode are what keep me trudging along though the series.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:52 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I have now seen up through episode 203, and there's no question in my mind that episode 141 is the single best episode of the series' first two centuries. I fully agree that it's a shame that it requires muddling through so much substandard content to get through, but bright spots like that episode are what keep me trudging along though the series.


From how much I've seen(up to the end of The Rescue arc; ep 63), my favorite moments was when Ichigo appears and simply lays waste to that executioner Zanpakto, makes (real)short work of the lieutenants, "gently tosses" Rukia to Renji, and starts...
...my second favorite part, Ichigo vs. Byakuya. Great, if a bit simple, ideological fight, and wonderfully choreographed fighting and honorable character decisions(when I later watched Yu Yu Hakusho, the gentlemanly head-to-head point of Toguro and Yusuke brought me back here).

Where does ep 141 stand with that Key?
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ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:02 am Reply with quote
Episode 141 has no fights. It is mostly an emotional episode focused around Orihime and she is surprisingly strong through out.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:11 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Episode 141 has no fights. It is mostly an emotional episode focused around Orihime and she is surprisingly strong through out.


Being that she was always one of my favorite characters(both in general to female characters, and in Bleach), this certainly acts as a powerful magnet for me to return... even if it is just a single ep. Anime hyper
Thanks, A. Steel.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:24 am Reply with quote
Otaking09 wrote:
From how much I've seen(up to the end of The Rescue arc; ep 63), my favorite moments was when Ichigo appears and simply lays waste to that executioner Zanpakto, makes (real)short work of the lieutenants, "gently tosses" Rukia to Renji, and starts...
...my second favorite part, Ichigo vs. Byakuya. Great, if a bit simple, ideological fight, and wonderfully choreographed fighting and honorable character decisions(when I later watched Yu Yu Hakusho, the gentlemanly head-to-head point of Toguro and Yusuke brought me back here).

Where does ep 141 stand with that Key?


Ichigo vs. Byakuya is one of the series' best head-to-heads in the first two centuries and Ichigo's rescue of Rukia is certainly one of the series' best individual scenes, although I'd rate Byakuya's apology scene in episode 62 higher still because of the weight it carries and what it symbolizes about Byakuya and his portrayal in the series to that point. In fact, the whole run of episodes through the late early '60s may be the best stretch of the series that I've seen so far.

The entirety of episode 141 is on the level of those scenes. Bleach too often apes Naruto in the clunky and forced manner in which it handles its character development episodes and has a bad habit of using them to interrupt fights, but in this case all of the developments in the series have pretty much built towards this Orihime-focused episode and this time they got it exactly right. It also features arguably the series' best writing and unquestionably its most heart-rending content and Carl wasn't exaggerating when he described it as one of the key pivot points of the series. And that despite there not being an ounce of action in it.

Honestly, I'd rate it at least in my Top 20 for all-time great episodes from any series I've seen, maybe even in my Top 10.


Last edited by Key on Mon May 09, 2011 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:43 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Ichigo vs. Byakuya is one of the series' best head-to-heads in the first two centuries and Ichigo's rescue of Rukia is certainly one of the series' best individual scenes, although I'd rate Byakuya's apology scene in episode 62 higher still because of the weight it carries and what it symbolizes about Byakuya and his portrayal in the series to that point. In fact, the whole run of episodes through the late '60s may be the best stretch of the series that I've seen so far.

The entirety of episode 141 is on the level of those scenes. Bleach too often apes Naruto in the clunky and forced manner in which it handles its character development episodes and has a bad habit of using them to interrupt fights, but in this case all of the developments in the series have pretty much built towards this Orihime-focused episode and this time they got it exactly right. It also features arguably the series' best writing and unquestionably its most heart-rending content and Carl wasn't exaggerating when he described it as one of the key pivot points of the series. And that despite there not being an ounce of action in it.

Honestly, I'd rate it at least in my Top 20 for all-time great episodes from any series I've seen, maybe even in my Top 10.


True. I forgot his apology; must've not stuck with me well(wasn't a big sub fan back then, and I REALLY wanted to see what happened...).
I knew me still thinking about how great Bleach was up to then wasn't just me being a fanboy anymore. "wipes the fanboy sweat permanently from brow"

Consider me anticipated, and if Carl is giving credit where he normally doesn't, then that alone convinces me.
And if you're putting it with your Tops(where upon I remember you saying that the finales of both Cross Game and Tutu lie), then that's only nitro added to this fire o' mine.

Thank you very much, Key.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:08 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Honestly, I'd rate it at least in my Top 20 for all-time great episodes from any series I've seen, maybe even in my Top 10.


I never got any vibes from it that episode 141 was all that amazing. Oh sure, I agree that it was well done, but it didn't blow me away. Are you sure that you are not subconsciously inflating it to mythic proportions? I mean, two things.

First, it may be amazing for a Bleach episode, but given just how brain cell-destroyingly awful many of the episodes are in Bleach, that isn't exactly impressive on its own. Second, you said that episodes like that one are the reason you trudge through the rest of the series. Well, maybe you want the episode to be more amazing than it actually was, because if it isn't, that would mean you spent all those scores of hours of your life for nothing.

Saying that episode 141 was genuinely good (not just for a Bleach episode) is not controversial, and many people including myself would agree with you on that. But saying that it is one of the top twenty best episodes you've ever watched in all Anime, ever, is something I just cannot even remotely agree with. I've watched series in which most of the episodes were as good as or outright better than 141.

And it hardly even touches the sky in terms of quality. Episode ten of Puella Magi Madoka Magica may be one of the most exquisitely crafted episodes I've ever seen, and that's just a recent example. Let me put it this way. I'm going to remember, till the day I die, the incredible emotional catharsis I felt after watching episode fourteen of RAINBOW. Episode 141 of Bleach? Already forgotten; I had to re-watch the episode again before writing this post.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:02 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Episode ten of Puella Magi Madoka Magica may be one of the most exquisitely crafted episodes I've ever seen, and that's just a recent example.


Individually? Yes. Part of the series, it's a HUGE waste. But it totally fits in with the show's central theme of "Pile as much as possible into a 13 episode series without any warning", so I guess some credit is due.
But I hope to the Lord Almighty, you aren't a fan dtm42; I don't want to provoke you. I remember how you reacted during the Toradora review, and I don't want to demonize this article...

...but then again, you might not be my only concern. Anime hyper

But now, SOMEONE had to spoil Rainbow for me... Thanks. Anime hyper
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:34 am Reply with quote
If I wanted to get into a PMMM debate with you I would go to the ten-page Talkback thread, which I notice you have already found.

As for RAINBOW, I haven't spoiled anything. It was a subjective opinion, that is all.

I'm curious as to what you think of my opinion about the one-hundred and forty-first episode of Bleach.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:24 am Reply with quote
even with quite poor big-scale concept, Bleach offers uniquely sharp, probably the most graceful graphics ever, and some of its plot elements are really done strongly...

few years after this series would end, it would be nice to have Bleach re-released in similar to Dragon Ball Kai with all of the fillers gone, the dragging cut, and some of the scenes redrawn for better animation...

(actually, Naruto might be even more in need for that remodelling, since it has horrible dragging, the fillers, and, most importantly, "animation" there is probably the worst among hundreds of anime titles I have seen... seriously, it never stops to amaze me how much greedy producers might get to ruin a powerful project in to such pathetic state... most of that series has to be thrown away and redrawn completely... with all the pauses cut...)


Last edited by MaxSouth on Mon May 09, 2011 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:23 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
First, it may be amazing for a Bleach episode, but given just how brain cell-destroyingly awful many of the episodes are in Bleach, that isn't exactly impressive on its own.


Point conceded.

Quote:
Second, you said that episodes like that one are the reason you trudge through the rest of the series. Well, maybe you want the episode to be more amazing than it actually was, because if it isn't, that would mean you spent all those scores of hours of your life for nothing.


Nah, you're off the mark here. The first time I saw this episode, it mightily impressed me and left me thinking about it for days afterward. While I don't actively follow as many series as some around here, I watch enough that it's a rare entire episode which so firmly sticks in my mind.

Quote:
Saying that episode 141 was genuinely good (not just for a Bleach episode) is not controversial, and many people including myself would agree with you on that. But saying that it is one of the top twenty best episodes you've ever watched in all Anime, ever, is something I just cannot even remotely agree with. I've watched series in which most of the episodes were as good as or outright better than 141.


Then you've been seeing stuff that I haven't, and clearly weren't as struck by it anyway. (The two titles you named in your last paragraph are among ones I haven't watched beyond our Preview Guide entries, although every indication is that I might need to give PMMM another shot.) And, to be clear, I'm not putting this episode near the top of a Top 10 or Top 20 list, just on it.

Hmmm. That's an article I ought to do someday, since I never have really discussed that beyond a few random comments here and there. . .
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:41 am Reply with quote
Quote:
If I wanted to get into a PMMM debate with you I would go to the ten-page Talkback thread, which I notice you have already found.

As for RAINBOW, I haven't spoiled anything. It was a subjective opinion, that is all.

I'm curious as to what you think of my opinion about the one-hundred and forty-first episode of Bleach.


"phew" Good.

Okay.

Well, Bleach is a shonen. It leans on the mature side of things, so that's what made it my personal favorite for the first few chapters of my fanhood of anime.
I won't lie and say I haven't seen seen better, but I'll admit Bleach's final episodes I watched always left tinges of hopefulness. A personal friend of mine, roriconfan, gives it an overall 3 from how far he's seen up to it(205 I think), calling it "Tite Kubo strives.... for what?"; basically meaning that the only thing that's really progresses was Aizen's betrayal. He didn't mention ep 141(but said there were a "few more good ones..."), because I'm guessing he doesn't believe any payoff will be sufficient.
Granted, I never watched Bleach for romance or transcending scenes, but for self-character enhancement, both personally and shonen-ly.
But out of the many shonen's I've seen Bleach is one of the most overall underachieving that I enjoy as much... as say Yu Yu or FMA. So it's a mystery as to how and why it all really works.
Personally, such episodes like that are defining moments of Bleach, and I would gladly donate time to watching to get there. But... it's not a top priority. How's that?

NOTE: Here's (one of)his page(s). Roricon's I mean.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/roriconfan
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Sanosuke_Inara



Joined: 23 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:48 am Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
even with quite poor big-scale concept, Bleach offers uniquely sharp, probably the most graceful graphics ever
Shocked I'm sorry, but to that, I have to say: Hell. NO. Not even close. Not even close to being close.
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