Forum - View topic
Why The Garden of Sinners is a Modern Classic


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12875
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:17 am Reply with quote
Honestly never a big fan of these movies. Sure they're really pretty and all, but with all the pretentious navel gazing and dark content, particularly that convoluted 5th movie, I found little to actually enjoy in them. The 6th movie is my favourite because it actually has some fun. Tsukihime and Fate both have plenty of lighter moments to balance out and enhance the grim, but Kara no Kyoukai is just grim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:53 am Reply with quote
I agree with Vaisaga. I prize the movies for there visual spectacle and I think Shiki makes a cool, kick-ass heroine but there is a fair amount that just goes over my head. I own the DVD LE because the Blu-ray versions were just way too overpriced for me.

I could never really get invested in the Shiki/Kokutou "romance" because Kokutou is just so uninteresting to me. I've never been a fan of those characters whose love is so unconditional they literally don't care what the object of desire does. I guess that kind of, "oh, anything for you, darling!" mindset is supposed to romantic, but I just find it trite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Nordhmmer



Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:10 am Reply with quote
@Blood

The http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_no_Kyoukai does a decent job of explaining some of the more puzzling aspects of the story.Certainly helped me with the whole Shiki(yin), SHIKI(yang) and 「Shiki Ryougi」(the Root/Void).

I would argue that there is far more to Mikiya's romance of Shiki than just "unconditional" nor does he turn a blind eye,Spends most of the movies saving Shiki from herselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1408
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:11 am Reply with quote
Wow, and I thought I was going to be the only one who disagreed with this being a classic.

I think this was one of the first things shown at New People in San Francisco's Japantown, and I went in part because Aniplex brought in some people who had worked on it. They showed the first two and then the 6th(?) installment. Had it not been for the Japanese toilets in the museum, it would have been a complete waste of 6 hours of my life. I didn't like the plot, didn't find Kokutou interesting and other than the gorgeous animation, the production felt like it had 0 value to me. I didn't feel too bad when I walked away from purchasing the entire set for the low Aniplex price of $500. About the only thing I can ever bring myself to purchase from Aniplex are the Fate production artwork sketches that are smuggled out of the studio, but that's largely because I know it just absolutely kills them that their artwork makes its way out of their studios.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fantaselion



Joined: 22 Dec 2016
Posts: 315
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:15 am Reply with quote
Well this is a very complicated series. I guarantee you for anyone who doesn't get it, there not going to enjoy this at all. I really enjoyed it though cause i'm smart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blood-



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 20224
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:30 am Reply with quote
Nordhmmer wrote:
@Blood

The http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_no_Kyoukai does a decent job of explaining some of the more puzzling aspects of the story.Certainly helped me with the whole Shiki(yin), SHIKI(yang) and 「Shiki Ryougi」(the Root/Void).

I would argue that there is far more to Mikiya's romance of Shiki than just "unconditional" nor does he turn a blind eye,Spends most of the movies saving Shiki from herselves.


Thanks for the link, Nordhmmer, I actually checked it out when you mentioned it in another thread. It is definitely useful. I'm being a little bit reductive about Kokutou's attitude toward Shiki and it has been a while since I've seen the movies. But that's the main takeaway I remember about him... the sense that he would never give up on her no matter what she did, including killing people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 3934
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:44 pm Reply with quote
I think I watched 5 movies some years ago and my thoughts are similar to Vaisaga and Blood-. They were pretty to look at, but I couldn't make much sense out of the story. Since I wasn't connecting with the story at all, it just got kinda boring.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4366
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:47 pm Reply with quote
I absolutely love this series and fully agree. Even the romance aspect of I felt was done in a unique way compared to most other. It really shows their struggle. Then Maaya Sakamoto (Shiki) and Kenichi Suzumura (Kokutou) got married in real life....and that just made later rewatches even better lol. I always found these movies far superior to their FATE works. I'm sure others will disagree. Part of it might be I like the overall plot far better than just a "battle royale" thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Themaster20000



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 693
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote
I watched the first film which I found so boring that I didn't even bother to watch the rest. The dialogue was terrible,while the main action scene was nice, the film didn't bother establishing stakes or any reasons why I was suppose to care. It may get bother,but I do not have the patience to sit through my slog to get to that point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aldael



Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:57 pm Reply with quote
And thought that character designs of Kara no Kyoukai were far superior compared to these of Fate. Well, there's a point in making them look as similar to Takeuchi's as possible but I just prefer the old ones.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pachy_boy



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1108
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
For a long time, you could only watch The Garden of Sinners via a limited edition set put out by Aniplex for $400 at least. ($600 for the Blu-Ray version, which is what you want considering the sheer visual spectacle of these films.)

As of this post, you can get it from Amazon Japan for just about $250. That may still feel pricey to some. but it's still far more economical than it used to be, and for this specific film series it's totally worth it (come on, all things considered it's not that much).

I even have the 3D blu-ray for the Thanatos movie. Coming from someone who has never before seen 2D-animation upscaled to 3D (never saw those versions of Beauty and the Beast and Lion King), I thought Thanatos looked stunning in three dimensions, enough so I was able to make out details I had not before, particularly with Touka's workplace.

I just re-watched this series recently without knowing about its anniversary mark, and it still beautifully holds up. I don't disagree with the criticisms against Kokutou, but everything else about this series makes up for it and helps give the romantic story-line an effective heart no matter how many times I watch it (especially episode 7's finale).

If by some remote chance Aniplex USA decides to dub this series, I'm hopelessly bound to double-dip, because again, I feel this series is worth it.


Last edited by pachy_boy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gonbawa



Joined: 28 Jun 2016
Posts: 25
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Of course it's a classic : The first time I saw the 1st movie I thought "this is the new Ghost in the Shell ! ". The atmosphere was the same, but more entangled with poestry and darkness. Yuuki Kajiura etheral music was on par with Kenji Kawai most iconic themes, and a beast of itself. And Kalafina songs were a revelation !
Lastly when I re-watched these movies I discovered new little details that bring together the other Nasuverse works.
For example, when Touko tells Araya "If you take Shiki's origin, the Counter Force is not going to keep quiet". She talks about Arayashiki sending guardians (like EMIYA/Archer of Fate Stay Night UBW) to destroy Araya, his plans and everything around him for the safety of Humanity.
Just a little sentence but there is so much meaning behind !
That's what I love about these movies.


Last edited by Gonbawa on Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 760
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:39 pm Reply with quote
Yeesh, tough crowd here. I liked putting together the pieces, and I think they had the atmosphere and feeling in place to make the process enjoyable.
Quote:
I would argue that there is far more to Mikiya's romance of Shiki than just "unconditional" nor does he turn a blind eye

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yazu13



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 129
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:58 pm Reply with quote
This is definitely a movie series that deserves to be watched multiple times. The first time is still great, but it's hard to pick up on a lot of the subtle storytelling and the fact that it isn't told in chronological order doesn't help. It's a genius series though, and every time I watch it I learn something new.

One of my favorite parts is something I didn't catch until my second viewing. When Touko goes to meet Cornelius Alba (the guy in the red suit and top hat) and brings Mikiya along, she hands him a ring that looks like it was made from a food wrapper or something similarly cheap, and she tells him "when we go inside to meet him, don't talk to him or pay him much attention." but she doesn't explain the ring any further than that.

Then the following scene shows her inside a building speaking with Cornelius alone. It's only after Cornelius says something shocking that we see a ring drop and then Mikiya is all of a sudden in the scene. Turns out the ring made him invisible to Cornelius, but it doesn't show Mikiya turning visible again, he just appears like he was always in the scene, and because of how disjointed the scene is (and the whole episode for that matter) you couldn't tell if this meeting happened at a different time in the movie's story or if Mikiya had to leave before Touko went inside. It's some seriously masterful directing and I haven't seen such smart trickery in anime since.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KitKat1721



Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 215
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:03 pm Reply with quote
I personally love the film series, despite being told a few times by friends that there was a good chance I wouldn't. But I don't think I truly loved it until the ending.

I didn't even really care about being confused during the first movie because of its atmosphere and style, and it wasn't asking too many immediate questions going forward. But as a whole, they held the cards close to their chest until the last film. I loved the slow progression of reveals regarding Shiki's character (plus her and Mikiya's relationship), but sometimes individual movies got a bit too bogged down in techno-babble or unimportant questions that don't really need answers but we can't help it. By the end I just realized none of that really mattered. You get a completely cohesive, emotional experience, even if you were confused along the way.

It's one of the few things where the ending so positively affects my opinion on something as a whole (the last two things I can think of were probably an episode of Black Mirror and a recently released video game).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group