Forum - View topicIn This Corner of The World Does Not Win at Online Film Critics Society Awards
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belvadeer
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Seems like they still don't want any anime to win. Maybe they still think it's "some f*cking Chinese thing". XD
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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Or maybe they don't. Maybe Coco won because people in the USA actually saw it, unlike the other three. If any deserved to win on its arthouse/world cinema outsider credentials, it was The Breadwinner. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1775 Location: South America |
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Anime/manga represents aesthetic principles that are alien to the Western mindset. It is just too complex and is beautiful, which are things that Westerners cannot understand when dealing with animation: the Western conception of animation is of computer generated plastic dolls performing simplistic children's entertainment, they give the award to the movie that most closely follows these principles. Or would you expect Westerners who are not anime fans to understand why Kobayashi's Dragon Maid is a masterpiece?
@The Breadwinner is just heavy handed "oscar bait" material too. Its art is simplistic and limited as well as its themes are cliche and uncreative. |
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Kovaelin
 Posts: 19 Location: Canada |
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Coco, having come after The Book of Life so recently, makes me question if they actually watched any of the other films or how they weigh aspects of each film. At least, Lego Batman didn't win.
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noblesse oblige
 Posts: 280 Location: Florida |
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This is why I don’t take many animation awards seriously outside of Annecy and some of the major film festivals. In this Corner of the World was by far the most inspired animated feature film of the year, followed by Loving Vincent for its innovative and impressive implementation of rotoscoping.
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5335 |
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There was one a few years ago, where the judges said that they voted for the only one they had seen. I wonder if it is the same here. It feels like they see the big name attached, Pixar and vote for it.
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Aquasakura
 Posts: 700 Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A |
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I don't know if I would entirely agree with your assumption, as well as I question your claim that Kobayashi is a masterpiece
I feel the same way, Oblige and I think that is the case MarshalBanana. This is one of the reason I don't pay a lot of attention to these awards. Besides, they are not really a good way of celebrating art anyway. At least according to this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrqQcHIuhzI He uses the Oscars as an example or reference, but what he says can be applied to these awards as well. On another note I never heard of this Annecy. |
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noblesse oblige
Posts: 280 Location: Florida |
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I’m conflicted when it comes to awards. You make a good point about awards not being a great way of celebrating art, but at the same time, I think it’s important to give recognition to the humans responsible for creating this art. For that reason, I accept awards as a flawed, but somewhat worthwhile endeavor. Annecy is, in my mind, the festival whose attendees/judges have the greatest understanding and appreciation for animation. Canada has some pretty good festivals too. |
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Aquasakura
Posts: 700 Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A |
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I see where you are coming from noblesse oblige, and you have a point. I wonder if it's possible to find some, for a lack of a better term, middle ground to this. In which we can celebrate art while giving proper recognition to those who create the art. As for the Annecy that sounds like a nice festival if it's fill with people who have a deep appreciation for art. |
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gdpetti
Posts: 23 |
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Could be a political thing, like all the 'Russia did it' crap that spews out of the whole Western BS show we know as 'politics'. An example is the IOC angle... political hatchet attack since Russia stepped up against our regime change op in Syria. It's the same controlled fake groupthink that propaganda is known for.
What are past comparisons? I had to look up 'Coco'... but it's American product, and it doesn't speak ill of the empire we still helm... it isn't about the nucs so much, nor the war, so much as that one girl's coming of age and SoL storyline... I really like that tidbits at the end on the other girl etc during and after the credits... on the print I saw anyway. Here in the West, it's best not to mention such 'touchy' subjects that we don't want discussed, sort of like the whole 'comfort women' issue in Japanese politics. "Coco" is most likely much more popular and most 'critics' awards are mostly PR for the industry, same with the Academy Awards in Hollywood etc. That's my first take... but again, I haven't seen "Coco"... most of that studio's work is rather good... just not personal... but they do get rather creative.... and most SoL's like "In This Corner..." aren't as popular.... and remember that if it's anything like Hollywood, most of the voters don't actually see most of the nominees.... those in the Academy that nominate them might, but the winners are picked by the general member, and most of them don't bother seeing all the nominees.... they get video copies, and might take a quick view, but they don't watch the whole thing unless it appeals to them. Isn't that true with most awards? Merit? .... 'meh'.... popularity always outshines pure artistry, and many times the 'arty' stuff isn't interesting to most of the audience or voters. Is this 'critics' awards any different than all the others? Those in the West get very political... very.... sometimes they've given as 'lifetime achievement awards'... for a role that is OK, but nothing special... it's usually called 'paying your dues', as the awards are setup and run by the industry for the industry.... to sell product... and "In This Corner..." won't make big bucks like the Disney fronted stuff does....they have a set and proven formula.. songs included... it works... and most awards are 'give and take' situations.... pay to play etc.... advertising for ancillary marketing etc. PS....looked at the membership list for this Online Award group... I only saw one 'Japanese' looking name...  Not very 'Asian' oriented, hunh? Doesn't this lack of 'Asian' animators speak about this award?
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1775 Location: South America |
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It is not an assumption. It is a fact: Western culture is a photographic culture and hence they are unable to appreciate the beauty in stylized art, such as manga/anime. I mean that is westerners outside of the small group of anime fans. Hence the reason why anime/manga is marginalized in Western culture. Now, you might not have liked Kobayashi as much as the critical consensus but the fact is that it showed up 7 times in top of the year lists from the ANN staff from one of the strongest years in anime history, so it is safe to say it is a masterpiece. And I think that it is an example of something that only people well acquainted with Japanese popular culture would fully appreciate.
I still think that Japan's Media Arts festival is the best award for animation since the people who vote for it are actually experts in the field. People who vote for Oscars and similar stuff know less about animation than a 19 year old anime fan. But one can be sure the titles that win the grand prize in Japan's media arts festival are good. http://festival.j-mediaarts.jp/en/award/animation/ |
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Aquasakura
Posts: 700 Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A |
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To clarify you are right in that people in general do not have the level of sophistication compared to the Japanese. At least if we are talking about people from countries like the United States. However there are some other Western countries that are very sophisticated to the point of being known for it such as France and Italy for example. In fact, I have heard that Italian society has a more positive view on Japanese animation and comics compared to most other Western countries. To share, I never agree with the idea of lumping every Western country together like they share the exact same values, culture, etc and treating it almost like a unofficial huge society, and this here is one of the reasons as to why. I could be wrong but it seems that whenever I hear people talk about western values and such they are actually referring to either the United States or United Kingdom without realizing it.
I should also clarify this to. In fact I should had elaborated from the get go, and for that I apologize. When I mention I that question whether Kobayashi was a masterpiece, I was not questioning the quality of the anime, but whether if the anime had revolutionized, set or gone beyond the standards the anime industry. I use to think the title masterpiece was reserve for something that was beyond excellent (my standards were base on the ratings use on this site when people voted how good a particular anime is at the encyclopedia). However that change when I watch a video on youtube titled What Makes Xenoblade Chronicles A Masterpiece? by a youtuber name "BLAZINGKNIGHT". Spoilers he did now view Xenoblade Chronicles as a masterpiece despite the title of the video (unless we could look at the title of him exploring why people think Xenoblade Chronicles is a masterpiece which he does just that), but not because he thought it was a terrible game (in fact he enjoy the game and in the middle of the video explains what makes this game great ), but because he thought that it did not do any of the things I mention above. After watching that video and I thought about what he said, and I come to the realization that I had the idea of masterpiece wrong, and with that changing how I judge stories. Now perhaps Kobayshi did indeed had revolutionized, set or gone beyond the standards of the anime industry and I am just unaware of it. I only heard mostly positive things concerning the "quality" of the anime, but not whether it was so "unique" it caused a shift within the industry. Furthermore whether something is a masterpiece or not is subjective, and I imagine you have your own criteria of judging whether something you love is a masterpiece or not. So that is the reason why I question Kobayshi as being a masterpiece. By the way just in case if you are curious about the video here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSmlKf2-Mgw
Wow! Another film festival to check out. I would keep both this and Annecy in mind for the future. Thanks for sharing, Jose. 
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1775 Location: South America |
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I think a masterpiece is just something that you had a powerful experience with. Something widely regarded as a masterpiece is something that has lots of people agreeing that they had a strong and memorable experience when they read/watched/listened to it. Kobayashi is a widely regarded as masterpiece because it is regarded as such by many people into the field. In other words, art is subjective and the only objective thing that we can say about it is that "person X" had a Y emotional reaction from it. Masterpieces are those titles that usually the people who are into the field agree that they had strong positive reactions when interacting with then.
They also have a top manga category as well as visual art and videogames. So it is a more general festival that features several different mediums. I liked their animation picks which included titles such as Princess Mononoke, Evangelion, Lain, Spirited Away, Millennium Actress, Summer Wars, Kaiba, Tatami Galaxy, Eccentric Family, Madoka, Silent Voice and Your Name, which are all bona fide titles. |
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Aquasakura
Posts: 700 Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A |
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So that is how you define masterpiece. By your definition I could say that about a anime I have watch last year as an example given how it resonated with me. So what what it about Kobayashi Dragon Maid that has resonated with you?
Cool! That makes the festival sound even more amazing if it includes other mediums. 
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