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AsuraTheDestructor



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 275
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:00 pm Reply with quote
There are planety of spinoffs that are all confirmed to be a part of a Time loop, incliding Devilman Lady, Neo Devilman, and Violence Jack that can be adapted.

In fact, the latter is very likely, because the final shot has 2 Moons like the Violence Jack Manga does.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 2795
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:07 pm Reply with quote
I really liked CB Chara Nagai Go World, I don't why, there is just something about it that I really took to.It also reveals that Violance Jack IS Devilman

Last edited by MarshalBanana on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1577
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:20 pm Reply with quote
AsuraTheDestructor wrote:
There are planety of spinoffs that are all confirmed to be a part of a Time loop, incliding Devilman Lady, Neo Devilman, and Violence Jack that can be adapted.

In fact, the latter is very likely, because the final shot has 2 Moons like the Violence Jack Manga does.

Yeah I thought Violence Jack took place in a universe after Devilman.
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Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 950
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Since a Cutie Honey remake was mentioned Cutie Honey Universe is scheduled for a 2018 release and it will be Directed by Yokoyama, Akitoshi who Directed Photokano did Key Animation for Summer Wars, and did Storyboard (eps. 6, 12, 18, 24) for RahXephon.

I also have to say the understanding of Fundamentalist Christian Theology as explained in this episode is a gross misunderstanding of the Anthropology set in The Biblical Text. With it sounding more Gnostic than it does Evangelical also it is pronounced The Book Of Revelation not Revelations small point but needed to be pointed out.

I really liked the series I also really hope something else gets made although if the world would be ready for a Violence Jack remake. I would be all for a Devilman Lady remake though
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EauDeBla



Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:41 pm Reply with quote
If only Shin Mazinger got the reception Devilman Crybaby got. Imagawa's version of Mazinger was actually close to Devilman in many ways going as far as recreating key scenes from the manga. He needs another chance. It's not fair.
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jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:23 pm Reply with quote
I appreciated hearing Jabob's interpretation of the themes of Devilman Crybaby from a more religious perspective based around the Book of Revelation, which I hadn't considered in any detail yet seems relatively fitting in retrospect, as well as his other comments on what metaphors and messages can be derived from the production in terms of gender orientation. It's very good to hear this from someone who has the personal insight to talk about that particular subject in greater depth than someone who hasn't lived through such experiences.

I agree with Zac regarding the mix of negative and positive social media comments helping to put Miki's speech in context. If everyone had automatically agreed with her I'd feel unconvinced, yet the fact that many of the comments reflected a very real kind of cynicism, trolling and bullying made that scene more grounded than expected.

To make a very small correction, Akira and Ryo weren't fighting on the moon at the end of the show. Instead, it was some unnamed mountain where they had originally met as children. Like many other things in the show, it wasn't exactly subtle yet also not entirely clear at a glance due to the sheer density of content and the fast pacing.

One interesting point about Cyborg 009 VS Devilman is the presence of a more manga authentic representation of the Jinmen/demon turtle incident. I thought the way Devilman Crybaby portrayed that situation wasn't too bad for the thematic purposes of this show, but I have to agree with some of the manga fans in that a few memorable moments and lines of dialogue were either downplayed or cut in the adaptation. Something similar happened with Zenon too, like Mike said.

Which is fine by me. I believe the creators of adaptations should be allowed a lot of freedom and not necessarily remain under the shadow of the original work. It is a risk, no doubt, but with enough talent, resources and care it's possible to produce something as interesting as Devilman Crybaby.

As a side note, I do have to talk about ID-0 being instantly swatted down by Jacob. I know that series is destined to be underwatched and underappreciated, but man...Mike, if you thought the first episodes were alright, please do not instantly dismiss the rest of it. There is no denying that ID-0 isn't a show with huge mass appeal, yet there are anime fans who did get enough actual enjoyment out of it and wrote positive reviews. For example: Link 1, Link 2, and Link 3. Needless to say, I cannot guarantee any particular person will like it or not. That would be silly. I am only telling people there is more than one side to the coin.

Going back to the main topic...I also want to own a physical copy of Deviman Crybaby. Hopefully someone has already acquired the home video rights and the release won't be delayed too much into the future. Netflix probably doesn't want to hurry things at this moment yet I doubt they would outright work to prevent it.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 390
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:36 pm Reply with quote
EauDeBla wrote:
If only Shin Mazinger got the reception Devilman Crybaby got. Imagawa's version of Mazinger was actually close to Devilman in many ways going as far as recreating key scenes from the manga. He needs another chance. It's not fair.


With Shin Mazinger, it came out during when Streaming was just kicking off and it is also a Mecha anime. It does appeal to a niche audience seeing how they still keep the classic art designs. With Crybaby, they modernize it to appeal to a new generation. Not to mention Shin Mazinger was not anything streaming network seeing how the license for it was pretty pricey at the time.
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lebrel



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:19 pm Reply with quote
I'm not entirely sold on some of the interpretation discussed in the podcast, in particular about Ryo. Yuasa has said that crybaby is essentially Ryo's story*, and I think Jacob's plot summary undersells him quite a bit. It's obvious from the beginning that Ryo is invested in Akira in a way that he's not in anyone else; he doesn't just want Akira as a test subject, he wants Akira to trust him and depend on him, and he freaks out when he thinks Akira's in danger of being exposed.

Yuasa points out that, in his version of the story, Akira's the only human who's ever been nice to Ryo (in the manga, both Ryo's initial backstory and the retconned version of his human life are very poorly developed). When he first manifests in his current form, he is found by a village of indigenous people in Peru (?), and he seems to be getting along with them pretty well until the village is promptly bombed into oblivion by unnamed forces because they somehow know he's there. After he is befriended by Akira, he lives in an orphanage, where he was apparently unhappy.

Yes, he's got the demonic bloodlust thing going, and the resentment of humans for displacing the demons, and the "only the strong deserve to survive" angle, but what Jacob and Zak are interpreting as "righteousness" I think could be better described as cynicism; not only does he have a supernaturally exact understanding of all of humanity's unpleasantness and weak points and failings, his personal experiences also lead him to believe that Akira is the one special and unique human who alone deserves to be preserved.

Yuasa also cites the strong/weak angle as one of his themes; Ryo is stronger than Akira, and can (and does) defeat him, and by demon logic that means that it is just and correct that Akira should die. But squishy human feelings can value people even if they're not strong, a point that Ryo doesn't fully internalize until just a little too late. I think Miki kind of fits in here too; none of the things that make her a valuable person have to do with being able to beat people up.

*Which means that this is the gay male apocalypse story. Or the androphillic hermaphrodite apocalypse story. Or something.
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Nyerp



Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Jacob's explanation of the show's underlying messages about religion really helped -- that kind of stuff flew over my head while I was watching it. I think I understand the show a little more after my initial negative reaction to it. However, I ultimately agree with what Zac said about episodes 8 and 9. That kind of brutality and nihilism about humanity makes it hard to connect with this show the same way I did with similar "emotional apocalypse" series like Evangelion and Madoka. I think part of the reason is the relatability and interiority of the major characters in those shows. End of Evangelion is a massive downer that makes you stare into the void, but you don't feel like you're just watching the ugliness of humanity from the sidelines. It's a culmination of tons character development from a 26 episode series. In contrast, Devilman's Akira and Miki are likable representations of humanity's good side, and Ryo is an interesting interpretation of cold, rational superiority that people think separates them from animals, but these characters never once felt like actual PEOPLE to me. I think Miko is the only character who worked for me on more than a metaphorical level. Yes, the culmination of her story was ultimately tragic and violent, but we got a good number of scenes depicting her inner struggle over the course of the series.
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Doodleboy



Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 224
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:48 pm Reply with quote
Man... my lack of religious upbringing gives me a big thematic blind-spot. Both for this series and Fate/Zero
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:35 pm Reply with quote
Really enjoyed the podcast! I completely agree with Jake's point that it should be viewed as an emotional journey more than a strict plot point story, and that view is what carried me through watching the whole thing starting at 4 am =*D

I also think the addition of Miko's storyline is one of the strongest parts of the adaptation. To this end I want to talk a bit about Miki that got overlooked in the podcast. You mention that Miki is the most idealized character with her altruism and hopefulness, but part of why I like Yuasa's version of Miki is that she has a more subtle flaw than the rest of the cast. While we see Akira, Miko, and Koda's struggles with themselves through their demon sides, Miki has to confront hers as a human, and that flies under the radar in comparison to the far more obvious and messy demon ones. Miki is shown from the start to be overly optimistic in contrast to Ryo's cynicism. However, before we even meet Ryo we are shown that she has her own doubts and feels guilt about them. The initial reason she ends up at the dock is because after defending her boyfriend/photographer to the track team she ditches out on him because she really does know he's not the idealized person she wishes people would be. She dodges meeting with him repeatedly until Miko takes her place and helps sets off her chain of events.

Miki wants to believe in inherent goodness so badly that she avoids confrontation in fear of being wrong. The idealization of this is not that she fears herself being wrong, but rather that she wishes to keep faith in humanity. She knows something was wrong with the photographer. She knows something is wrong with Akira. And, in the end of Miko's arc, we learn that she always knew that Miko loved her even when Miko didn't. She avoided all of this and hoped for the best. When presented with opportunities for action to stand up for the rap punks or someone harassed by anti-demon gangs she shows no hesitation, yet when it's something so incredibly personal and emotionally struggling Miki hesitates. This culminates in her decision to finally stand up for Akira while he's livestreamed protecting people. Miki finally makes a choice to face her indecision against the combined cynicism of humanity (represented in the most literal sense as internet commenters) and allows others that are struggling to open up. In the chaos of death threats and doxing we see a few comments of thanks and hope to those that needed her message. This is further solidified in the end of Miko's storyline as Miki's recognition finally frees her to embrace her true self. Miki, as everyone else in the story, ultimately perishes but her idealism still mattered. It mattered that just like the devilmen that it was impure and conflicted, and it took a recognition of the combination of those hopes and fears to be the best that it could be.

I hope this explanation makes sense, and to be clear I am not condemning anyone for overlooking it. In all the style and directness of Crybaby the more subdued aspects end up getting anywhere from overlooked to downright trampled by the weight of the emotional storytelling, but that's what makes it enjoyable, and something that while I won't be revisiting too soon look forward to finding more of in both others reactions and eventual rewatches through the years.
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TheAAA



Joined: 03 Feb 2016
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Y'all I gotta say that this is the most capital C CURSED title for a podcast episode I have ever laid eyes on.
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KitKat1721
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:59 pm Reply with quote
Due to binge-watching it in a non-stop marathon, there's this slow roll out of new discoveries, whether thematic, symbolic, etc... that completely passed me by on a first viewing. And long discussions like this are really enlightening. Even as someone who went to Catholic school as a kid, I never even thought of some of the points Jacob brought up regarding religious context, outside of the basics of the Book of Revelation.

I will say if I was watching it weekly, there's no way I would have been able to tell Koda (the track star) and that one rapper who dies in the club with Miko apart. I had to go back at one point just to make sure.

I really hope this gets a blu-ray, but I don't really know how Netflix shows work regarding home releases, since most of their licensed series (not produced) have been released by different companies.
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Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:06 pm Reply with quote
jroa wrote:
One interesting point about Cyborg 009 VS Devilman is the presence of a more manga authentic representation of the Jinmen/demon turtle incident. I thought the way Devilman Crybaby portrayed that situation wasn't too bad for the thematic purposes of this show, but I have to agree with some of the manga fans in that a few memorable moments and lines of dialogue were either downplayed or cut in the adaptation. Something similar happened with Zenon too, like Mike said.


This is like the only thing I wasn't really a fan of with Crybaby. Jinmen is easily, by bar none, one of my favorite antagonists in the franchise and while I appreciate what Crybaby tried to do with it spoiler[making it more personal for Akira was genius with his parents being part of the Death Masks], the fact that the sadistic turtle demon wasn't there at all was honestly disappointing especially considering we had the appearance in 009 vs Devilman just a few years earlier voiced by the amazing Otsuka. I don't remember Jinmen actually speaking at all in Crybaby, which is a shame because that's the only issue I really had with it. Well, that and "Miko" not really being "Miko" but somebody completely different, albeit much more distinctive and better for it.
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TranceLimit174



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 777
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:38 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
EauDeBla wrote:
If only Shin Mazinger got the reception Devilman Crybaby got. Imagawa's version of Mazinger was actually close to Devilman in many ways going as far as recreating key scenes from the manga. He needs another chance. It's not fair.


With Shin Mazinger, it came out during when Streaming was just kicking off and it is also a Mecha anime. It does appeal to a niche audience seeing how they still keep the classic art designs. With Crybaby, they modernize it to appeal to a new generation. Not to mention Shin Mazinger was not anything streaming network seeing how the license for it was pretty pricey at the time.


Shin Mazinger also spends the whole show getting his butt kicked.
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