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This Week in Games - Persona Royal with Cheese


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Chrono1000



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:21 pm Reply with quote
I think that Takaki would have to be vague since anything related to the PS4 license agreement would be covered by NDA and Sony has an army of lawyers. I admire his honesty and he is saying what a lot of Japanese game developers would like to say. Sadly I think he is right that the censorship of fanservice games is going to get worse. He still wants to make console games but after all the stuff that has happened I get why he is moving to traditional fantasy games.
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Greed1914
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 28 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:21 pm Reply with quote
I'll wait to see what April 24 brings, but I'm not as convinced that the new Persona 5 character is a female MC. The conversation she has about the Phantom Thieves doesn't seem to match with options for Joker, though I suppose they could be altering/adding things. Plus, some examinations of the trailer I've seen showed that she is wearing a first-year Shujin pin, and Joker is a second-year. Again, it's possible they are making changes so that she is more than just girl Joker, but I'm thinking she is more like Marie in Golden: a character that was added, but also fits into and adds to the existing story. The teaser announcement leading to a teaser trailer was a bit annoying, though.
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Terrible90sDub
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 14 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:29 pm Reply with quote
I'm thrilled about most of this news. I loved Zero Escape, so I'm curious to see where AI: The Sominum Files will go.

For P5, it will be great if it's a female MC, that appears most likely, and there's certainly a lot of demand for one, but I'm trying to not get my hopes too high up since so little is known at the moment and last time we got Marie. The presentation this time points more towards the former, at least, and that conversation about the Phantom Thieves seems like it could be from when you're interrogated about them on TV.

There's so much I'm looking forward to in Shadowbringers, but yeah, gender locking the new races was a bad idea and I've yet to hear someone happy about that. As a healer main, I'm also a bit disappointed we won't get a new class, but I'll be happy so long as the new sch skills end up being fun. (Or, if my fairy can finally have a glamour, all will be forgiven!)
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 562
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:31 pm Reply with quote
I'll believe the girl in the P5R teaser is a FeMC when Atlus actually says it. Apart from her being a first year student and the Phantom Thieves already existing, there's also her voice over:
Quote:
“I think helping people is a wonderful thing, but if I had to say, I don’t like them. I don’t think the Phantom Thieves’ methods will make the world a better place or help anyone. In the end, I feel like you can only solve that yourself."

So even if she's a playable protagonist, if seems safe to say she's at least not a female version of Joker, and would maybe have her own separate mini-campaign.
EDIT: Beaten to the punch. Razz
Greed1914 wrote:
The teaser announcement leading to a teaser trailer was a bit annoying, though.

They'd already announced another Super Live for April, so it was a given this would be another tease. I'm just glad we know the R stands for now, honestly.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Personally hoping that Royal is a standalone sequel / mix-quel? that is large enough for a separate physical release with all new content and largely an all-new cast.

Just doing female Joker wouldn't work. It worked in P3 because the MC is related to no-one and basically just gets dropped into the game, and in a group with a more militaristic heirarchy make-up.

In Persona 5, the stakes are a lot more personal, and much of the character interactions and the set-up itself would have to be totally re-written to make sense.

If Joker were a girl, then...
- Would an egotistic guy like Shido really want anything spreading around that he got beat up by a high school girl?
- Would any court, even a bought one, take this claim seriously? She's likely get off easy than if it were a guy.
- But even if a girl was found guilty of such an act, that her circumstances would be MUCH harsher socially in Japan than if it were a guy. Her life would pretty much be over.
- I don't see parents sending their daughter to live alone with some other older man.
- I don't see a charmer like Sojiro who has a soft spot for women kicking Fem-joker upstairs to sleep in the attic or talking to her the way he talks to Guy-Joker.
- Kamoshida's interactions with fem-Joker would also change significantly. I can actually see him being nice to her but actually trying to blackmail and manipulate her to do stuff for him like other female students.
- Iwai doesn't look like the sort to allow a high school girl to help him with his other activities.
- Would Ryuji just buddy up with a girl the first time they meet? Or is it more plausible that Ann would be the first friend she makes? Ann and Fem-Joker would probably board the car with Kamoshida to begin with as he'd likely offer both of them a ride. So the palace discovery and Ryuji introduction would have to occur very differently.

From a writer's perspective you can't just swap out sex and call it a day. P3 was a simpler affair than P4 and P5 where things got more personal. P3's dorm and SEES was also an easier set-up for a boy/girl option.

Plus aside from major writing changes, there'd be the anime cutscenes to change and it'd be expensive overall for a re-release. P3P got away with it by being on PSP and pairing its presentation down completely, which makes it easier. In fact originally P3 intended to have male/female option, but due to the work and expense it was dropped from the PS2 release, and only added back in for P3P on the cheap.

I'd be surprised if Atlus went through such a major revision for Royal. But a whole different scenario? That's more plausible. And I actually prefer having a fixed sex in the role as that way the writing and other character interactions don't have to be vague to cater to the options.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:38 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:

In Persona 5, the stakes are a lot more personal, and much of the character interactions and the set-up itself would have to be totally re-written to make sense.


Considering a lot of people had a problem with various aspects of the writing in the original game I don't see why that'd be a problem.

jdnation wrote:


I'd be surprised if Atlus went through such a major revision for Royal. But a whole different scenario? That's more plausible. And I actually prefer having a fixed sex in the role as that way the writing and other character interactions don't have to be vague to cater to the options.


.....Pretty sure most gamers love options (even while occasionally capriciously complaining about it.).
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shabu shabu



Joined: 25 Jan 2019
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Location: Tokyo
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:26 am Reply with quote
Terrible90sDub wrote:
There's so much I'm looking forward to in Shadowbringers, but yeah, gender locking the new races was a bad idea and I've yet to hear someone happy about that.


The Japanese community has been indifferent. I understand why Yoshida decided to announce this at the Japanese fan festival instead of one of the western ones. Westerners really make a big issue out of things like this.
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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:06 am Reply with quote
The interview Mr. Happy did with Yoshi P. gave a pretty good excu...reason for the gender locking. I'm never changing my character from the default human I made way back in the beta, but for the people who care, I hope they include bother genders in the future.

I am, however, annoyed we're not getting a new healer, but again, pretty good argument made for why.
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FinalVentCard



Joined: 28 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:53 am Reply with quote
Not giving players male Viera or female Hrothgar is shenanigans of the highest caliber. People have wanted their bunny boys since FFXII came out, and they were on pins and needles for it. What gives, Square? Laughing
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CorneredAngel



Joined: 17 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:09 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Anything on that new releases list catch your eye?


Kinda disappointing not to see anything about the PS4 re-release of Trails of Cold Steel, especially given that it's such an anime-friendly game. But I guess will always remain critically acclaimed, and beloved by fans - but largely ignored.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 999
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:21 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Considering a lot of people had a problem with various aspects of the writing in the original game I don't see why that'd be a problem.

.....Pretty sure most gamers love options (even while occasionally capriciously complaining about it.)


Because it'd be a lot more work. A LOT MORE, to make any sense. As I said, it's not something that can just be done with minimal changes. It would basically be an entirely different story at that point - unlike P3P where the story was the same because the circumstances are indifferent to who the MC is as a person, and you only had to change up the social links, and could get away with a heavily scaled back presentation with minimum effort. Not to mention that the female MC material was already largely there from the start as they planned it that way from the beginning, but time and money had that plan cut. This was not the case for P4, and especially not for P5.

It could be that P6 could give us options again, or they might just go with a fixed female MC next time to change things up. Either way, the story and character interactions would have to be written with this in mind.

If I had to pick, I'd prefer a fixed character, as writing tends t be better with someone fixed rather than the designed vagueness of most other create-your-character stuff. Not that it couldn't be done, and done well, but that would be a major undertaking, and I just don't see many developers willing to budget to create unique dialogue and unique cutscenes with dual VA and unique significant story differences catering specifically to which sex you pick. It'd be nice, and that'd be really good incentive to play the game twice over. But I don't see that happening, so we'll just end up with a more lazy scenario where dialogue and story is more neutral and flexibly interpretive due to the option to pick your character sex.

I already find this stale with regards to the social links, in that I wished that other characters would respond to or change depending on whether you get into a relationship with someone, but it's always done in a way that is largely inconsequential due to catering to player choice, but that is naturally at odds with other character and story development. For example - if MC picks Girl B, then Guy A feels free to court Girl C, and Girl A might be disappointed, but might grow closer to Guy B, and other students in school might gossip about MC and Girl B etc.

But naturally that involves a lot more work, and 3 games later, there's been nothing done to build on top of that basic thing of more complex interactions between social links. Even cheating doesn't really grant anything significant outside of short lived comedy. So I can understand why they do it this way, but I'd rather see something like that developed more for more immersion around a fixed character and player decision making as that character, than just an artificial player choice of sex.

Gamers love options, but I'd rather see those options represented in consequences to decision making, particularly in a franchise where character relationships matter the most.


FinalVentCard wrote:
Not giving players male Viera or female Hrothgar is shenanigans of the highest caliber. People have wanted their bunny boys since FFXII came out, and they were on pins and needles for it. What gives, Square? Laughing


I'm guessing that it's most likely coming, and was originally planned to begin with, but for some reason simply didn't make this patch in time for whatever reasons.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:05 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:

Because it'd be a lot more work. A LOT MORE, to make any sense. As I said, it's not something that can just be done with minimal changes. It would basically be an entirely different story at that point


Okay.


jdnation wrote:


Either way, the story and character interactions would have to be written with this in mind.


Okay.

jdnation wrote:
If I had to pick, I'd prefer a fixed character, as writing tends t be better with someone fixed rather than the designed vagueness of most other create-your-character stuff. Not that it couldn't be done, and done well, but that would be a major undertaking, and I just don't see many developers willing to budget to create unique dialogue and unique cutscenes with dual VA and unique significant story differences catering specifically to which sex you pick. It'd be nice, and that'd be really good incentive to play the game twice over. But I don't see that happening, so we'll just end up with a more lazy scenario where dialogue and story is more neutral and flexibly interpretive due to the option to pick your character sex.


Okay

None of those points make a substantive argument for why they still can't make it they got time and they quite obviously have money given that they're apart of Sega. So tbey should just do it and improve upon the original game just like Golden did.
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OtherSideofSky



Joined: 19 May 2016
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:06 pm Reply with quote
I don't understand why Battle Snow Princess Sayuki / Heavenly Guardian / Legend of Sayuki / Yukinko Daisenpuu has to have a new English title every time it gets re-released.
Are they trying to hide the fact that it's a PS2 game? (I haven't seen any news sites listing the release mention it, so I guess they succeeded if so.) Do they think the new title sounds more appealing in English than any of the previous ones? (It doesn't; it sounds over-literal despite not even being a translation of the Japanese title.)

I would really love P5R to have a female protagonist option like P3P, but I really doubt Atlus would commit the resources to it, especially since they never did it for P4 (and since they seem unwilling to go the Fate/Extra route and just swap models with the most minimal possible dialogue changes).
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:01 am Reply with quote
shabu shabu wrote:
Terrible90sDub wrote:
There's so much I'm looking forward to in Shadowbringers, but yeah, gender locking the new races was a bad idea and I've yet to hear someone happy about that.

The Japanese community has been indifferent. I understand why Yoshida decided to announce this at the Japanese fan festival instead of one of the western ones. Westerners really make a big issue out of things like this.

That's completely untrue, and likely stems from people with a limited understanding of the Japanese official forums using Google Translate on the General Discussion index and calling it a day. There's an active and ongoing discussion on the official forums here, where most posts are actually against the gender lock. Some posters aren't entirely opposed to the restrictions it, buying into what has been said about development costs and such, but wonder why such an obviously behind-the-times decision was made in an international MMO in 2019.

Overall, I'd say there's less vocal support in Japan than I've seen in the west, ironically enough. "I don't mind it myself but I see why it's an issue," seems to be as far as the supporters are willing to go.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 999
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:12 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
None of those points make a substantive argument for why they still can't make it they got time and they quite obviously have money given that they're apart of Sega. So tbey should just do it and improve upon the original game just like Golden did.


They have "time and money" to put effort into an undertaking akin to a whole new game scenario for a re-release???

All you're saying is "Gimme gimme gimme I wan it because we're entitled and they have "money"" or something.

Golden had nothing on the level of what you're asking for.

That's not how this works. So far both re-releases of P3 and P4 involved minimum effort that did not entirely require any rewriting or complete changes made to the main scenario. Re-releases of this sort usually look to minimal investment for a higher return with expectations of a lower number of sales.

If they were going to do something like what I suggested, it'd be simpler to start from scratch with a new scenario and write it with both sexes in mind, rather than attempting a retcon and a complete rewrite of an already established scenario. P3P had it because P3 was originally intending to have both sexes, until one got cut.

Re-Releases typically sell fewer than the original release, the re-release of FES was half the sales of P3 on the same platform. (This is judging from the Japanese numbers).
Although Persona has been an exception where P3P and P4G come close to the sales of the original (but still under), but this is usually because they are ports to a new platform where the original wasn't released, and they accomplished this with minimal work. So this is why devs won't spend too much money on re-releases as a general rule, because sales are usually under what the original did.

They would do better with a 'Persona 5-2' with entirely new story, or by porting Persona 5 with a P4G treatment to Switch. Though both these would still sell less then the original release (unless they go multiplatform, but that also adds dev costs), or just go with Persona 6.

It's not just about 'lots of time and money' (though this is laughable considering how long Atlus takes to release major instalments with multiple delays), and more about how can they maximize what they invest towards. If the cost goes over a certain line, then they'd more likely shift to a full fledged sequel or new title which would guarantee a higher sales return. Therefore re-releases always get developed on a faster-track with minimal investment.
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