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INTEREST: Dr. Susan Napier Responds to Attempt to Ban Anime from Akira to Howl's Moving Castle


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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 1370
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
"Nowadays we're very concerned about what we say. Which in many ways is a good thing. We need to be careful not to engage in hurtful or hate speech. But I think there's this tendency now where you have to not deal with controversial subjects."


Welp, this is what everyone with a brain said would happen once government and institutions got involved with policing everyone's manners. There are an infinite number of ways for someone to get offended. It's unavoidable. If y'all can't get along, don't associate. There's no obligation for anyone to like one another, only to functionally co-exist. The bureaucracy should only get involved if things really escalate to the point of physical harm or direct constant daily harassment. Otherwise you're embarking on a puritanical fool's errand where new targets and constantly invented and can always be conveniently found to the point of self-destruction.
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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 1618
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:37 pm Reply with quote
Don't blame the book. Blame whoever invented puberty.
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Firefly251



Joined: 14 Jul 2018
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The legal guardian of an underage student must sign an acknowledgment that materials in a course may include mature adult themes before they enroll in a course.



so basically parent doesnt want to be held accountable and blames the content they dont like ratehr than them apparently not takign responsibility for letting their kid in the class to begin with knowing the content can eb 18+.


Karens are getting out of hand...
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer



Joined: 03 Nov 2017
Posts: 316
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:38 pm Reply with quote
Do they want the late 1990s and 2000s again? Because this is how you get the late 1990s and the 2000s again.

A reminder, we won that war. We'll do it all over again if we have to.
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Otaku-sempai



Joined: 27 Mar 2017
Posts: 79
Location: Lackawanna, NY
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:01 pm Reply with quote
It is patently ridiculous to label an honest discussion of pornography, by itself, as being pornographic. Now, maybe there are problematic images in the chapter on the subject, that's the only real objection that I can think of that would carry any weight at all. Anyone in a position to elucidate?
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 3693
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:08 pm Reply with quote
I almost wish the media wouldn't give dumb rednecks like this the time of day, because that sort of free publicity only serves to legitimize them. If everyone ignores them, they won't gain any purchase.

(And yes I realize you can't really do this, but it'd be nice.)
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:28 pm Reply with quote
TheAnimeRevolutionizer wrote:
Do they want the late 1990s and 2000s again? Because this is how you get the late 1990s and the 2000s again.

A reminder, we won that war. We'll do it all over again if we have to.

What "war" are you even pretending existed?
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TexZero



Joined: 25 Oct 2017
Posts: 445
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:57 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
TheAnimeRevolutionizer wrote:
Do they want the late 1990s and 2000s again? Because this is how you get the late 1990s and the 2000s again.

A reminder, we won that war. We'll do it all over again if we have to.

What "war" are you even pretending existed?


The only one i can think of that is remotely applicable is the War on Drugs. That campaign backfired hard once the youth that lived through it were able to vote and almost half of all states have some form of legalized drug use be it medical or otherwise now.

Not that it really matters to the discussion though. It's just sad that people in this case that students parents aren't taken to task for signing a waiver and not living up to their end of that.
Clearly neither the kid, nor the parents are mature enough to handle the coursework.
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capt_bunny



Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 294
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Firefly251 wrote:
so basically parent doesnt want to be held accountable and blames the content they dont like ratehr than them apparently not takign responsibility for letting their kid in the class to begin with knowing the content can be 18+.


Karens are getting out of hand...


I'd say its more than "Karens" but the fandom police, antis, people who care about social justice, hardcore religious people, etc. To say that these type of subjects about pornography or say that it just sounds like the same people who say all videos cause violence. There's a lot more than to these themes in the story than what they think. Ironically; I've seen with this mentally are either very old or the ones who are under 25. Not all but most.

However; you are right about the parents. Most parents nowadays aren't teaching their kids about this. I was lucky to have my parents look at my manga to see the age rating to let me read and teach me what is wrong/right in these stories.
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1300
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

I'd say its more than "Karens" but the fandom police, antis, people who care about social justice, hardcore religious people, etc. To say that these type of subjects about pornography or say that it just sounds like the same people who say all videos cause violence. There's a lot more than to these themes in the story than what they think. Ironically; I've seen with this mentally are either very old or the ones who are under 25. Not all but most.


As someone who cares about social justice, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with your labels.

This is simply a book that talk about themes in which parents don't often approve.
Sex is definitely not a new concept that makes parents uncomfortable and there are plenty of stories about that.

Even worse, I always seem to find news where (conservative) politicians don't even understand anime at all. When Eric Trump thought result images of Shigeo "Mob" Kageyama was a conspiracy theory to block searches of actual Mobs.

Man, this kinda also reminds me of the Peach Girl news a few years back though.


Last edited by tygerchickchibi on Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:59 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 4910
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:52 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
I almost wish the media wouldn't give dumb rednecks like this the time of day, because that sort of free publicity only serves to legitimize them. If everyone ignores them, they won't gain any purchase.

(And yes I realize you can't really do this, but it'd be nice.)

It’s good that journalists are reporting that local politicians are wasting time and taxpayer money on a non-issue. Maybe it’ll get their constituents to think twice before voting for them again.
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:56 pm Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
Firefly251 wrote:
so basically parent doesnt want to be held accountable and blames the content they dont like ratehr than them apparently not takign responsibility for letting their kid in the class to begin with knowing the content can be 18+.


Karens are getting out of hand...


I'd say its more than "Karens" but the fandom police, antis, people who care about social justice, hardcore religious people, etc. To say that these type of subjects about pornography or say that it just sounds like the same people who say all videos cause violence. There's a lot more than to these themes in the story than what they think. Ironically; I've seen with this mentally are either very old or the ones who are under 25. Not all but most.

However; you are right about the parents. Most parents nowadays aren't teaching their kids about this. I was lucky to have my parents look at my manga to see the age rating to let me read and teach me what is wrong/right in these stories.

These were literal conservative lawmakers. Not people who care about social justice. It's really reductive to conflate the two because you don't like some tumblr posts but it's by no means a worthwhile comparison to make, especially in this case.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:22 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
These were literal conservative lawmakers. Not people who care about social justice. It's really reductive to conflate the two because you don't like some tumblr posts but it's by no means a worthwhile comparison to make, especially in this case.


I mean, both Republican and Democrat senators just pushed a bill to crack down on porn and sex work content on the internet Of course the "War on Obscenity" is a bi-partisan issue so I'm not sure why you're taking offense at the idea. Now probably isn't the best time for tribalism.
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ATastySub



Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:37 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
ATastySub wrote:
These were literal conservative lawmakers. Not people who care about social justice. It's really reductive to conflate the two because you don't like some tumblr posts but it's by no means a worthwhile comparison to make, especially in this case.


I mean, both Republican and Democrat senators just pushed a bill to crack down on porn and sex work content on the internet Of course the "War on Obscenity" is a bi-partisan issue so I'm not sure why you're taking offense at the idea. Now probably isn't the best time for tribalism.

Because it's incredibly disingenuous to go into a thread on an article where it, once again, was literally Republican legislators and try to compare that to randos on social media. Your own whataboutism isn't helpful either, as you've taken my post and somehow turned tumblr posts into Democrats. I get that's your priority but it's at best off-topic but more likely the same old bad faith arguments that actually fueled this kind of case in the first place.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:49 pm Reply with quote
capt_bunny wrote:
Firefly251 wrote:
so basically parent doesnt want to be held accountable and blames the content they dont like ratehr than them apparently not takign responsibility for letting their kid in the class to begin with knowing the content can be 18+.


Karens are getting out of hand...


I'd say its more than "Karens" but the fandom police, antis, people who care about social justice, hardcore religious people, etc. To say that these type of subjects about pornography or say that it just sounds like the same people who say all videos cause violence. There's a lot more than to these themes in the story than what they think. Ironically; I've seen with this mentally are either very old or the ones who are under 25. Not all but most.

However; you are right about the parents. Most parents nowadays aren't teaching their kids about this. I was lucky to have my parents look at my manga to see the age rating to let me read and teach me what is wrong/right in these stories.


Ahaha, I KNEW it was only a matter of time before someone used Napier's quote to go after progressive criticism.

I met Susan Napier at AnimeFest at one of her panels. She said that she hoped Ghibli movies would get passed on to the next generation, and I commented to tell her that, as a preschool teacher, many of the children I work with know and love a lot of their work. We chatted a bit after the panel, and I told her I was hosting one later about analyzing anime from a feminist perspective. She attended mine, told me she really enjoyed it, and invited me out to get coffee and chat.

I told her that some people have used her writing and theories as a cudgel against progressive criticism and she was upset to hear it.

So, if you think she's an ally to some kind of anti-progressive perspective, you are barking up entirely the wrong tree.

{Mod Edit}: I edited your post because the last sentence was pure bait and nothing more. Don't post the same sort of things you report or argue against. ~ Psycho 101
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