Forum - View topicInternational Co-Productions: Anime or Not?
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ChibiGoku
Posts: 710 |
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Ok, this is what happens when you have too much free time, and ponder about this alot.
At anyrate, I got the idea of asking this around a couple places, but the general idea has been rather different. Now, we're going based off the current definition that most people reconise the word Anime. While I know it's simply "Animation" shortened in the Japanese language, I'd just like to use the current meaning that the most of the fandom know's it by. Now, onto the question: Would you guys consider International Co-productions Anime or not? When I reffer to International Co-productions, I reffer to things such as Willy Fog, Mysterious Cities of Gold, Ulysses 31, Oban - Star Racers, Valerian, Etc. I'm not talking about stuff that is just simply outsourced to a japanese company, e.g.: Tiny Toons, Inspector Gadget. On the many forums I have asked this question I've gotten many different responses. Some would consider it anime, some don't consider it anime, with both sides having a good arguements to their answers. So, I'm just curious to see what your guys response is. (I'll post my Opinion later on the whole matter, but I need to get some sleep for now...) |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I for one have noticed that these joint ventures, while not overall popular here tend to do really well as far as sales figures go. Both Witchblade, Afro Samurai, and Highlander anime sold very well this year. I think we will continue to see more joint ventures considering the success of these "hybrid" anime since the Animatrix.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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My definition of anime has pretty much always been the same, which is that anime is what is produced and made in Japan, even if it were a joint effort. The fact of the matter is all that went into creating the anime itself, even if the initial idea came from America or wherever, it's still an anime if the final production came from Japan.
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jigoku_hime
 Posts: 78 Location: twinkle twinkle little stars... |
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Yup, I agree. In my opinion, an anime is produced by Japanese and was made in Japan (even if it is a joint production). |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Where would you put the second season of the Boondocks then? Anime or not? Just asking. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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There are quite a few "grey area" productions out there, some of which are very critical to the industry's history and viability. One doesn't have to look much past The Last Unicorn, financed by Rankin/Bass and produced by Topcraft (which was a forerunner of Ghilbli), to see the impact Yankee dollars have had on this Japanese industry.
Recently, some of the creations straddling the line have ranged from mere financial partnerships (Ninja Scroll TV and Big O II coming immediately to mind) to commissioned works (Linkin Park's "Breaking the Habit" music video, The Animatrix, O-Ren short in Kill Bill Vol. 1). I don't hesitate to consider these anime. Just as Japanese anime creators pull from an international pool of ideas and sources (Bram Stoker, Robert Heinlein, and Alexandre Dumas seem especially popular "idea wells") then so too can they pull from an international financial pool. And, quite honestly, if Bandai's toy department can demand that Tomino's stark white and steel war machine should be more colorful so it'll sell more kits, then it's okay by me if Samuel L. Jackson wants to pay for a story about a black samurai. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Sam Jackson didn't pay to make 'Afro Samurai'; he was paid to help make it.
Anyway, by example, 'The Last Unicorn' was NOT produced in Japan; it was animated there. There's a big difference. And I'm sure any Japanese animation studio can tell you about that difference when they've experienced both creative control and a complete lack of creative control. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I pretty simply define it as if the Japanese studio has any creative input in the production (The Animatrix), then it's anime. But it the Japanese studio has no creative input and is merely doing gruntwork while all the decisions are made by the international studio (Boondocks), then it isn't anime.
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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Sorry for sounding like a stick-in-the-mud, but...does it really matter? If you like it, then...who cares?
Who can deny that Tekkonkreet (?) is cool, or that Witchblade is sexy? |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Taking veiled snipes at other forum members instead of trying to properly converse with them...you were warned against this behavior. --Nagi
Last edited by KyuuA4 on Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:01 am; edited 2 times in total |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Was 'Witchblade' a joint venture or co-production, though? I thought it was just a case where a Japanese studio licensed the property from an American publisher ... ? I could see 'The Animatrix' being considered a hybrid production, for sure, as both American and Japanese creative forces had considerable input. 'Afro Samurai' didn't seem to have much American input at all, except in terms of the vocal cast (who got stuck with some pretty pedestrian English dialogue) and some of the music c/o the RZA. |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1371 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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The "race" of the original creator -- and the production team -- should bear no factor in deciding whether a work is anime or not. While the question of "what is anime" is generally viewed as a "yes-no" question. Yet, there exists the answer of "maybe" or "both". How does that work? Simple. As the original post says, some will say something is anime. Some will say it isn't. The answer to the "what is anime" question is spectral, not limited to "black-white", "yes-no". There exist answers in the "grey area". Having done a bit of "research" -- I've come across a bit info. However, I can draw a few conclusions: 1) It's very very difficult "quantifying" the "anime style". I tried thinking about that using visual constructs only. Writing up a description for the "anime style" requires looking at anime "sterotypically" - which involves a "mostly" but "not all" approach. 2) The story aspect is treated separately, as the story aspect becomes comparative with other forms of written literature. Arranging story genres basically fall under Comedy, Romance, Action, etc. "Unique" anime/manga genres such as Harem, Seinen, Shoujo, etc. all function as subsets to the main genre categories. 3) Categorization within art is not bordered. It isn't limited to a template or a shell. Defining "anime" with a strict limit as "Japan only" is like holding water with paper. It'll leak. Art requires interpretation; and so, terms must be defined loosely. 4) Work relating to the study of anime as a medium has not reached a depth similar to literary study. Much material right now is limited to "terminology", "market growth", "anime history", etc. 5) There exists an overwhelming attraction towards the Japanese. More people from Western countries study Japanese now, than prior to say 1984; with the "anime boom", the numbers have increased. Undoubtedly, Japan does have a unique culture; however, that does not mean it can be separated from the rest of the world (even if doing so is positive). 6) For now, many consider any Western animation emulating anime is "not authentic" anime. An emulation of anime, pseudo-anime, anime-influenced, or some other variation of "not-quite anime". This is seen from various editorial responses to the question found in archives for ANN and AnimeNation. 7) No art form is geographically exclusive. This applies to Greek, Roman, French, Chinese art. This applies to Japanese art too. Trade in cultural ideas includes a trade in art forms. |
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wizard55
 Posts: 198 |
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Actually, Inspector Gadget had more then just Animators in Japan, the Executive Producer was Tetsuo Katayama, who also was Producer on "The Littles". I'm currentlly asking in the Encyclopedia section of the forum if these twho series could be considered as "not anime but related" because of that. Seeing as Thundercats and Silverhawks were animated in Japan and the directors/producers (or someone higher then animators) were Japanese. Last edited by wizard55 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Looks like you've slept over a month. Sure you don't need some medical assistance?
If you ask my personal opinion, titles like Robotech and Transformers should not be included in the Encyclopedia either. |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7548 Location: Maine |
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I agree with this. For my mileage there has to be a certain amount involvement from the Japanese side of the equation beyond simply acting as the animation studio. I don't entirely agree with Wizard55 about Japanese directors being a deciding factor. Just because they're directing doesn't mean they're actually involved in the creative process. I wouldn't expect an American director to fly over to Japan (or China) and direct a season, it's a easier (and probably cheaper) to just contract a Japanese director to do the work. Ultimately they'll still be taking orders for the producers.
Wow, now that's really being strict. I think it's pretty obvious why people would expect those to be listed as anime, but I'm curious why you would say otherwise. Emerje |
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