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ANNCast - Mawaru Podcastdrum


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varmintx



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1131
Location: Covington, KY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:15 pm Reply with quote
The direct download isn't working correctly.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:30 pm Reply with quote
varmintx wrote:
The direct download isn't working correctly.


Whoops, should be fixed now.
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rootsofjustice



Joined: 06 Nov 2009
Posts: 177
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:43 pm Reply with quote
So which version did you guys watch, the dubbed version or the dubtitled version?
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Ah... the non-stop talks with a friend after watching all of Penguindrun.
Man... I remember that. Never reached an agreement though.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2272
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:59 pm Reply with quote
I am sorry zac but sakurasou (.....pet...throw up) is only bad for two episodes that you could skip by reading character and episode synopsis. that is one prime time TV episode.
I skipped episode 1 and wanted to drop the series a two thirds of the way through episode 2. and I stuck it through saying I needed to atleast give the show AN episode. and I was intrigued by the talk of talent.
I then watched episode 3 was annoyed by the placement of the girl But I actually grudgingly liked it... in the way that it actually worked.
Then episode 4, the show dropped pretty much all the idiotic fan service
and actually fully goes for the full on talk about talent.

Also skip episode 7! just skip the (almost obligatory now a days) little sister episode.

On the actual topic I think this is a great way at looking at the penguins and a lot of the influences of this series (not in a theamtic sense)
http://nopybot.com/2011/12/24/observations-in-mawaru-penguindrum-an-explanation-of-the-method-to-the-madness/
I would agree that the point is very much screw fate. That said I really need to rewatch the show in order to get a lot more of the show. I would fully agree with bamboos statements on ringo in the first half.
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Animerican14



Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 961
Location: Saint Louis, MO
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:06 pm Reply with quote
rootsofjustice wrote:
So which version did you guys watch, the dubbed version or the dubtitled version?

Describing the whole affair as being "dubtitled" is unfair and overdone at this point; other than some debatable insertions of colloquialisms in the subtitle script like "freak wad" or "panties for the win" (more or less an approximation of a literal translation of "victory panties" from the Japanese), there are plenty of times where the exact wording differs between the dub/sub. At worst, maybe there was some hybridizing going on. Whatever the case, Sentai strongly stayed true to the original, whether in its dub or sub script.
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yamata no orochi



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 137
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:20 pm Reply with quote
Two things I don't think you touched on in the podcast:

1. Literally the very first shot in the show after the OP sequence is of the fan in the Takakura house. This is a series literally called "Mawaru" Penguindrum, and if Utena's primary symbol is a rose, Penguindrum's is probably a wheel or a cycle--whether it be a recycling symbol or a giant fan (as seen above Himari's head in the first episode, or in the spoiler[Child Broiler].)

2. I'm pretty sure that Penguindrum is at least partly an elaborate homage to the works of Haruki Murakami. Both because it references his works on occasion (particularly in the 9th episode, with Super Frog Saves Tokyo) and includes a bunch of his favorite tropes in the show itself (things that vanish, unexpected phone calls, cats, supernatural powers, secret passageways, train stations, cooking, parallel worlds, historical flashbacks...just drawing from Murakami Bingo here.) Particularly spoiler[the 95 incident parallels for me the focus on the Japanese war in Manchuria in Murakami's Wind-Up Bird Chronicle.)]

That said, great podcast! I cheered when Zac mentioned visual allegory (since that fits both Penguindrum and Utena to a T) and also when he called out people who labelled the show as pretentious for being anti-intellectual shitheads. That was cathartic, not gonna lie (though I can definitely see how Penguindrum wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.)

Meanwhile, if anyone's interested in reading more about Penguindrum, this is the part where I link the frankly astounding episodic coverage it received over at Altair and Vega. Give it a read, people!
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Animerican14 wrote:
Whatever the case, Sentai strongly stayed true to the original, whether in its dub or sub script.

Are you serious? To quote Extra Credits, there's a difference between "To be, or not to be" and "Yo, dawg, I'm thinking about offing myself". They both technically mean the same thing, but do you think anyone would be happy if the French/German/Italian version used that second version for their translation?
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Zac
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:32 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Animerican14 wrote:
Whatever the case, Sentai strongly stayed true to the original, whether in its dub or sub script.

Are you serious? To quote Extra Credits, there's a difference between "To be, or not to be" and "Yo, dawg, I'm thinking about offing myself". They both technically mean the same thing, but do you think anyone would be happy if the French/German/Italian version used that second version for their translation?
\

Animerican14 has been on a one-man crusade to defend the dub and the subtitles from literally any and all criticism whatsoever.

That said I personally contributed to the hype about the show being dubtitled and full of Fosterisms early on in a pretty significant way, but I recant in this podcast. There are a few examples early on (I don't care what you think, "for the win" is not an acceptable translation of "victory", please keep your stupid-ass internet meme speak out of professional translations) but 98% of the show is a straightforward no-frills perfectly fine translation, both the dub and the sub.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:36 pm Reply with quote
You know... I have to wonder... why DID they go with the "for the win" line? I mean, it doesn't fit the character saying it, it doesn't fit the show, it doesn't fit anything. I know it's a really minor thing, but I'm really curious. The Japanese line is pretty stupid and awkward, and I think it was intentional. "The panties of victory" would have been a much better alternative, since in English we do use "the _____ of victory" in many stories.

Just... weird....
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:46 pm Reply with quote
I generally give a series 2 episodes to see if it wows me simply because I tend to lose track of time and simply dont set aside 25 minutes to see if an anime is good.

As for Spring Breakers I would watch it if it had a scene were Jeff Jarret smashes James Franco head with a guitar and then challenges Selena Gomez to an MMA match.

I think Zac's talk on not hammering a show thats trying to be artistic on failing occasionally really does show why me and him have such drastic opinions on certain anime and why I have so much respect for him. I generally dont give shows extra room to fail when they try to be artistic. I should but I am just not that kind of person.

They are showing the Evangelion movie now because Toonami was just having a Birthday so they wanted to celebrate it by having something special. The movies generally dont get enough of a viewers increase to justify the added cost of licensing it.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1580
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Oh I have a completely different opinion about the message of the show.spoiler[I always thought in the end it was how we must obey what destiny sets out for in one cycle or another.But destiny is always good cause no matter how much suffering we have in this world,we all go to heaven.There is basis for that when kiddy versions of Kanba and Shouma say "Like Kenji said this is where all the fun begins!".Kenji here is Kenji Miyazawa so we can essentially see that even train represented a trip to heaven.The last scene of the show also had Himari connected to space by string,that would suggest my idea is not wrong.]
Also does anyone have any idea what those penguins are representing?I am very curious cause I have no idea.
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1268
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:06 pm Reply with quote
I really enjoyed listening to this podcast. I actually never figured out the whole break free from fate and make your own choices thing as the central theme of the show even though I did notice how prevelant it was in a lot of areas. It does make sense now when I stop to think about it. I also agree you don't really need any knowledge of the gas attacks to understand it's contribution to the plot(to be honest I didn't know a thing about it till I read some forums after the first episode that mentioned it aired).

On the note of Sentai's translations, I do have some issues with them, and I was intitally a major detractor of the dub but now for the most part I'm cool with their release. It's not perfect(especially the dub) but the missteps aren't enough to completely ruin how you interpret the show as Zac mentioned. I do wish they could re translate some parts of the first half, but it is what it is at this point. I certainly wouldn't say the release isn't worthy buying. Anyone should check out the show if they get the chance.

Also for those who don't know at this point if the second half seems better translated it's cause they switched ADR/Script writers for the translation for that half.
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sailorsarah



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 189
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:03 pm Reply with quote
First off, I'm really terrible at intelligently expressing my opinion in writing, but I really love this show, so I'll give it a go.

I definitely agree that it is about being able to make your own destiny. To be honest, I nearly teared up when Zac said, "You are not what you have lost." (I recently lost my mother, so I really connected with the loss aspect of the show.) As a mother myself, one of the messages I got from the show was that we really need to let our children know that we love them and that they matter, and then we need to expand those ideas to everyone we meet, so they won't feel abandoned.

I don't think the spoiler[sacrifices of the main characters at the end need to be looked at cynically, regarding the idea that someone else has to change your destiny for you. It's more like you should think about what you can do for other people, instead of what you can get for yourself. Himari was established as a disadvantaged person who needed help (her terminal illness and status as an abandoned child), and there are people in life who are in such dire straights that they need a little help to get on the right track. So it seems that the show was emphasizing the idea that it is good to choose to use your life to help those in need, which the boys did, so they will be rewarded, which could be indicated by their discussion of Night on the Galactic Railroad at the end.]

That's just the train of thought I had. This is such a beautiful show to look at, and I loved the music. The opening was sung by the same person who sang The Tatami Galaxy ending, another great show I would love a physical release of.

Thanks so much for this podcast episode!
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scarletbird



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:52 pm Reply with quote
Great show as always, guys. I'd been really looking forward to this one since I just started rewatching Penguindrum via Sentai's release.

While I wholeheartedly agree that this show deserves every ounce of artistic criticism/analysis you can throw at it, I don't think you have to watch this with the intent of tackling it intellectually. Penguindrum for me is an emotional piece. Even if you don't know what the heck is going on--or if it even "really happened"--it can still resonate with you at an emotional level. Yuri's story in particular really struck me a second time around. The way she struggles with her body image is something a lot of women can relate to. And all the characters are like that--richly fleshed out people with stories that each of us can resonate with at some level.

So I say, even if you're like me and get intimidated by all the symbols and riddles in dense pieces like this, you really ought to watch it. It's challenging, to be sure, but it's totally worth it.

Oh, and I found this series of blog posts to be really fascinating. It's by a fansubber who goes into a lot of detail about the language and visual symbols in Penguindrum. There's a lot of great writing about this show on the 'net, but that one I found to be particularly helpful for coming to my own conclusions about what it's trying to say.
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