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INTEREST: Fate/stay night Creator Kinoko Nasu Shares Thoughts on Fate/Extra Last Encore: Illustrias




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Kicksville



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 806
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Nasu also offered an apology. He said, "And sorry, everyone, for the difficult-to-understand dialogue. But I want you to try to concentrate as much as you can."

Challenge accepted.

When are we gonna get this thing on Netflix over here?
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3698
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Does Netflix get these specials? When the regular Fate/Extra 10 ep aired on TV it was streamed on Netflix in Japan but it seems like these 3 concluding eps were not part of the license. I know they don't get anything from blurays either and I don't know if the producers are treating these episodes like that
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Animorphimagi



Joined: 29 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:40 pm Reply with quote
Lol when even he is apologizing for the dialogue at least you know you aren't crazy for wondering about it during the episode.
I just figured the subs were crap, but while that is almost certainly true, the original language seems to not be that much better. I understood the main character fairly well and he might be my favorite fate MC other than Kiritsugu, however I couldn't understand the villain's views or motivations at all. At one point I think he even contradicted himself.
All around, Aprocrypha addressed what they were going for in a much clearer way, even if they answered the question in a different way.
At least humanity wasn't doomed in Extra, but it's hard to say what actual direction the world would take due to the ending. In Apocrypha, Sieg blindly believed that humans wouldn't die out, for some unknown reason, and thereby took away humanities one hope to survive the end of the world. All while selfishly proclaiming he understood humanity better than a man who was viewed as a saint, had lived a full life, and knew there was little hope in another alternative showing up in the next few decades. Sieg was only a month old at the time and had never lived with any large group of humans btw...
Nero was the clear standout character, with Gawain at a close second, and I can't wait for the Camelot movies to come out eventually but I hope someday we can get some ova about Nero and ancient rome, via the grand order storyline.
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Eddy564



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:11 pm Reply with quote
Animorphimagi wrote:
Lol when even he is apologizing for the dialogue at least you know you aren't crazy for wondering about it during the episode.
I just figured the subs were crap, but while that is almost certainly true, the original language seems to not be that much better. I understood the main character fairly well and he might be my favorite fate MC other than Kiritsugu, however I couldn't understand the villain's views or motivations at all. At one point I think he even contradicted himself.
All around, Aprocrypha addressed what they were going for in a much clearer way, even if they answered the question in a different way.
At least humanity wasn't doomed in Extra, but it's hard to say what actual direction the world would take due to the ending. In Apocrypha, Sieg blindly believed that humans wouldn't die out, for some unknown reason, and thereby took away humanities one hope to survive the end of the world. All while selfishly proclaiming he understood humanity better than a man who was viewed as a saint, had lived a full life, and knew there was little hope in another alternative showing up in the next few decades. Sieg was only a month old at the time and had never lived with any large group of humans btw...
Nero was the clear standout character, with Gawain at a close second, and I can't wait for the Camelot movies to come out eventually but I hope someday we can get some ova about Nero and ancient rome, via the grand order storyline.


I really enjoyed how you summed it up. I agree.
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Slashman



Joined: 26 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I'm reluctantly giving you the summed up theory! You win!!!
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OtherSideofSky



Joined: 19 May 2016
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:42 pm Reply with quote
The finale definitely contained some unnecessarily convoluted oration, but mostly it just felt like a continuation of the last half of Last Encore failing to strike a good balance in its attempts to be both a sequel to and adaptation of the game. Leo and his episodes were really fun, though.

Animorphimagi wrote:

At least humanity wasn't doomed in Extra, but it's hard to say what actual direction the world would take due to the ending. In Apocrypha, Sieg blindly believed that humans wouldn't die out, for some unknown reason, and thereby took away humanities one hope to survive the end of the world. All while selfishly proclaiming he understood humanity better than a man who was viewed as a saint, had lived a full life, and knew there was little hope in another alternative showing up in the next few decades. Sieg was only a month old at the time and had never lived with any large group of humans btw...

I think the idea was supposed to be that because Amakusa views homunculi in their natural state as similar to his ideals for a perfect humanity, Sieg, having been that and rejected it, is qualified to criticize him? (That and the weird moral imperative a lot of Type-Moon stuff seems to attach to humanity expanding into space.) It works a little better in the books because the anime axed like 50% of Sieg and Jeanne's scenes, but it was still the weakest part of the story.
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Kicksville wrote:
Quote:
Nasu also offered an apology. He said, "And sorry, everyone, for the difficult-to-understand dialogue. But I want you to try to concentrate as much as you can."

Challenge accepted.

When are we gonna get this thing on Netflix over here?


and yet,certain people from this site like to shit on him for this...
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all-tsun-and-no-dere



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 132
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:08 am Reply with quote
Okay, it took a bit of work but I translated Nasu's statement about the hard-to-understand dialogue in full!

Nasu wrote:
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Fate/Extra Last Encore: Illustrias Tendōsetsu. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical metaphysics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Hakuno's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Fate/Extra Last Encore: Illustrias Tendōsetsu truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Hakuno's existential catchphrase "Hateful," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as my genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.
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onepieceuc1



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:38 am Reply with quote
all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:
Okay, it took a bit of work but I translated Nasu's statement about the hard-to-understand dialogue in full!

Nasu wrote:
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Fate/Extra Last Encore: Illustrias Tendōsetsu. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical metaphysics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Hakuno's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Fate/Extra Last Encore: Illustrias Tendōsetsu truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Hakuno's existential catchphrase "Hateful," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as my genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.


That's a joke right? Or is it that he likes to joke like that?
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bruce1991



Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:51 am Reply with quote
^

It's a rick and morty fan quote/joke/meme.
Quote:
"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty" is a copypasta that fans and detractors of the animated television series Rick and Morty use to sarcastically respond to criticisms of the show. The text, which may have been originally posted sincerely, refers to the high-falutin and self-congratulatory way people talk the show.


[Edit]: removed unnecessary nested quotes. Please read the quoting guidelines. Errinundra.
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onepieceuc1



Joined: 08 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:56 am Reply with quote
^

Oh I see, thanks ! Very Happy

Ditto.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
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Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:26 am Reply with quote
Animorphimagi wrote:
All while selfishly proclaiming he understood humanity better than a man who was viewed as a saint, had lived a full life, and knew there was little hope

You mean the teenage figurehead of a failed rebellion who got executed at 16-17? The anime does touch upon why Shiro is in no position to pass judgement on humanity.

Granted the argument is still weak, was weak in the books and could be hard to appreciate without putting it in the context of the grand narrative about humanity Nasu has in his lore.
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ThatMoonGuy



Joined: 13 Oct 2017
Posts: 146
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:49 am Reply with quote
Animorphimagi wrote:
SNIP


It's actually a bit more complex than that. I'm gonna have to put a few spoilers of FGO and Tsuki no Sango here but spoiler-marking it all would make the text unreadable.

You see, the whole point of the Sieg vs Amakusa conflict can be understood as a question the role of change and conflict in human history. Amakusa advocates salvation as a return to a state of absolute harmony, a Garden of Eden of sorts, where humanity never changes nor has conflict. As they have no needs they have no desires and as they have no desires they have no reason to advance. That is basically what happens to mankind in Tsuki no Sango, as humans become self lenient as progress stagnates, eventually causing the death of human history. That's also the goal of Artoria in the Camelot chapter of FGO, to create a pure and unchanging humanity inside the Tower at the End of the World. In a certain sense, that's similar to the concept of 'divine time' and a understanding of history and time as a permanent thing. Hence why Artoria in FGO is treated as a Divine Spirit not a human anymore.

Sieg, in constrast, sees human conflict as sad, but meaningful for it's the struggle of every one that exists that allow humanity as a whole to go beyond where it is. His vision of time and history is closer to that of the modern one and he sees progress as an imperative. Where Amakusa's goal to be reached mankind would stop advancing and society would stagnate as it is then. In the context of the Nasuverse it would thus become a Lostbelt, a timeline which became incapable of further advance and liable to be cut from the Great Tree Know as Time. Letting aside the Nasuverse mysticism and talking about social implications, imagine what would happen if the society of today became perfect. Without needs there would be no inventions and without inventions our perception and knowledge of the world would stop growing. It would be the end of history, as people believed the XXth century would be. Or so is the core assumption in Nasu's worldview.

All that is important because Fate, as it became, is fundamentally about human history and the hopes that mankind may yet have a future. FGO shows it more clearly but that's also at the center of Apocrypha. Nasu is sort of a romantic when it comes to that and has an almost blind passion for mankind. When all is said and done, the whole "dying magic" aspect of Type-Moon has to do with that.
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casenumber00



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:56 am Reply with quote
Yes, Nasu should just keep apologizing while working on other announced and LOOOOONG unfinished works he said he would get to. We have been waiting for Mahou Tsukai 2 and 3, more DDD, Tsukihime 2(?) that has been teased for a decade, and where is Girls Works?
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Kuro shinigami



Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:12 am Reply with quote
casenumber00 wrote:
Yes, Nasu should just keep apologizing while working on other announced and LOOOOONG unfinished works he said he would get to. We have been waiting for Mahou Tsukai 2 and 3, more DDD, Tsukihime 2(?) that has been teased for a decade, and where is Girls Works
Nasu isn't the writer for girls work, since meteo wrote it. Also you should be blaming ufotable, considering meteo already finished the script in 2010-2011 if I'm not mistaken. and he gave it to them, and the only update ufotable has made on girls work is that it's still in production.

And nasu wouldn't even be able to work on mahoutsukai no yoru, tsukihime, nor DDD at the same time, considering he already has a major amount of stories he has to write as it is. Besides that they could only start working on tsukihime after finishing mahoutsukai no yoru part 1 in 2012, since it lead to a 2 year delay from it's original release of 2010. Which caused nasu to push back all his other projects because of the production issues they had with mahoutsukai (which is why we saw a flood of fate projects come out afterwards). Also it isn't tsukihime 2, it's a remake. And if you had any experience remaking a story, you would know that it's quite time consuming and difficult to do.
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