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Keynote, Day 3: Kun Gao on Anime on the Internet


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AnimeCornerStore
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
What this means specifically for the anime market is that while some series will be popular enough to warrant distribution both on DVD and online, smaller, more niche titles that would not be popular enough to justify an attempt at DVD distribution can now get a "fair chance" to reach audiences.


Replace the work 'niche' with 'junk' and I think you've made a more accurate representation of the argument. HEH.

Bob (aka Robert)
The Anime Corner Store
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Tenchi



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Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:27 pm Reply with quote
I hope that prediction doesn't come to pass completely, because the Catch-22 for me is that I'm not interested in spending money on anything other than a physical release (whether I can get it at a local bricks-and-mortar store or have to buy it mail order), but most of the shows I like these days are very niche.

If it comes to pass, I'll just be spending a lot less on anime than I did a few years ago, back when most of the shows I liked were getting licensed. (I already am spending less than I was to some degree, since a lot of the recent shows I want, like Minami-ke and the Ichigo Mashimaro OVA's, still haven't been licensed.)
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:15 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
I hope that prediction doesn't come to pass completely, because the Catch-22 for me is that I'm not interested in spending money on anything other than a physical release (whether I can get it at a local bricks-and-mortar store or have to buy it mail order), but most of the shows I like these days are very niche.

If it comes to pass, I'll just be spending a lot less on anime than I did a few years ago, back when most of the shows I liked were getting licensed. (I already am spending less than I was to some degree, since a lot of the recent shows I want, like Minami-ke and the Ichigo Mashimaro OVA's, still haven't been licensed.)


I agree, there is no way to force me to spend money on a product that isn't tangible. I'd prefer to buy a CD over downloading from iTunes, DVD over spending money buying off the internet. That's why physical extras are good with DVD releases, I've probably already seen the show, now I need to incentive to help get me to want to own it, and usually the show itself isn't enough.
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Tenchi



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:29 pm Reply with quote
Well, physical extras are nice, especially when they're CD's (but I also like the glossy guidebook that came with the ARIA set), but I'd still be happy with completely barebones DVD sets of the niche shows I want since merely having a physical copy of the anime I like enough to spend money on is the most important thing to me at the end of the day.
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Elves



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:16 am Reply with quote
I'm just worried that those of us who still have to deal with dial-up internet (yes, we still exist...I'm one of them) or DSL aren't forgotten in the current mindset that moving releases online only is the best for everyone/the industry.

And, just like a lot of fans, I want to own a hard-copy of the shows I love. I like digital distribution as a way to give the niche market shows a chance, but I still want to own them too. For example, Natsume Yujinchou is one of my favorites, and it streams on Crunchyroll, but I'm afraid it's one of those niche shows that won't ever see the light of a R1 DVD release. So at the moment digital distribution is like dangling candy in front of my face; candy I can never ever have.
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:38 am Reply with quote
AnimeCornerStore wrote:
Quote:
What this means specifically for the anime market is that while some series will be popular enough to warrant distribution both on DVD and online, smaller, more niche titles that would not be popular enough to justify an attempt at DVD distribution can now get a "fair chance" to reach audiences.


Replace the work 'niche' with 'junk' and I think you've made a more accurate representation of the argument. HEH.

Bob (aka Robert)
The Anime Corner Store

One man's junk is another man's niche. Obviously from your perspective any show that couldn't move a physical product is "junk," but that doesn't mean there's not value in making it available to more people in some way.

I hope you aren't advocating that the only shows that should be legally available are the ones popular enough to support a DVD release.
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Mohawk52



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:20 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The major reason for the decline of the anime industry in the North American market, in Gao's opinion, is not fansubbing or piracy, but simply the ease of access to cheaper entertainment online.
Is he taking the piss, or what? Did he actually say that with a straight face? Laughing
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:08 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Quote:
The major reason for the decline of the anime industry in the North American market, in Gao's opinion, is not fansubbing or piracy, but simply the ease of access to cheaper entertainment online.
Is he taking the piss, or what? Did he actually say that with a straight face? Laughing


I'm not sure what was actually said, but I think the intention was to say:

Quote:
The major reason for the decline of the anime industry in the North American market, in Gao's opinion, is not fansubbing or piracy per se, but simply the ease of access to cheaper entertainment online.


i.e. he was making a larger point of how the crucial factor wasn't that it was pirated, but that is was easier and cheaper.
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Mohawk52



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:37 am Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
i.e. he was making a larger point of how the crucial factor wasn't that it was pirated, but that is was easier and cheaper.
A bit cheeky of him seeing as his company is one of the reasons it is that way, built on fansubs and pirating. Laughing
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Teriyaki Terrier



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:02 am Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
I hope that prediction doesn't come to pass completely, because the Catch-22 for me is that I'm not interested in spending money on anything other than a physical release (whether I can get it at a local bricks-and-mortar store or have to buy it mail order), but most of the shows I like these days are very niche.

If it comes to pass, I'll just be spending a lot less on anime than I did a few years ago, back when most of the shows I liked were getting licensed. (I already am spending less than I was to some degree, since a lot of the recent shows I want, like Minami-ke and the Ichigo Mashimaro OVA's, still haven't been licensed.)


I too won't spend on anything but a actual dvd. But I typically rent anime (from Netflix) and occasionally purchase anime. But if legal online anime does happen, I will be spending even less money (renting and purchasining) but like Tenchi, I've alreadly been spending less and less over the years.

( I was goind to buy the Lucky Star OVA, but since there isn't English audio, I may either buy the Remastered Irresponsible Captain Taylor complete series or the first season of Dragon Ball.)
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samuelp
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:23 am Reply with quote
Teriyaki Terrier wrote:
Tenchi wrote:
I hope that prediction doesn't come to pass completely, because the Catch-22 for me is that I'm not interested in spending money on anything other than a physical release (whether I can get it at a local bricks-and-mortar store or have to buy it mail order), but most of the shows I like these days are very niche.

If it comes to pass, I'll just be spending a lot less on anime than I did a few years ago, back when most of the shows I liked were getting licensed. (I already am spending less than I was to some degree, since a lot of the recent shows I want, like Minami-ke and the Ichigo Mashimaro OVA's, still haven't been licensed.)


I too won't spend on anything but a actual dvd. But I typically rent anime (from Netflix) and occasionally purchase anime. But if legal online anime does happen, I will be spending even less money (renting and purchasining) but like Tenchi, I've alreadly been spending less and less over the years.

( I was goind to buy the Lucky Star OVA, but since there isn't English audio, I may either buy the Remastered Irresponsible Captain Taylor complete series or the first season of Dragon Ball.)


You're contradicting yourself. You say you won't spend money except on an actual DVD, but then you also say you mainly rent.

It's not like you get to the keep the DVDs you rent, so why would you be adverse to "renting" a download, or paying for a streaming service?

If you could have access to the same shows you rent on DVD for the same money you pay to rent them a month, except have them streamed instantly to your computer/TV, why would you be against that?
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Teriyaki Terrier



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:41 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
Teriyaki Terrier wrote:
Tenchi wrote:
I hope that prediction doesn't come to pass completely, because the Catch-22 for me is that I'm not interested in spending money on anything other than a physical release (whether I can get it at a local bricks-and-mortar store or have to buy it mail order), but most of the shows I like these days are very niche.

If it comes to pass, I'll just be spending a lot less on anime than I did a few years ago, back when most of the shows I liked were getting licensed. (I already am spending less than I was to some degree, since a lot of the recent shows I want, like Minami-ke and the Ichigo Mashimaro OVA's, still haven't been licensed.)


I too won't spend on anything but a actual dvd. But I typically rent anime (from Netflix) and occasionally purchase anime. But if legal online anime does happen, I will be spending even less money (renting and purchasining) but like Tenchi, I've alreadly been spending less and less over the years.

( I was goind to buy the Lucky Star OVA, but since there isn't English audio, I may either buy the Remastered Irresponsible Captain Taylor complete series or the first season of Dragon Ball.)


You're contradicting yourself. You say you won't spend money except on an actual DVD, but then you also say you mainly rent.

It's not like you get to the keep the DVDs you rent, so why would you be adverse to "renting" a download, or paying for a streaming service?

If you could have access to the same shows you rent on DVD for the same money you pay to rent them a month, except have them streamed instantly to your computer/TV, why would you be against that?


No I am not. By renting, you still have a actual copy of a dvd, but are also helping the industry as well.

Also, the reason I chose not to pay for online anime is because I have a dvd player and I don't feel like watching advertisements as well. Although I occasionally watch anime here or on Funimation, I typically only watch anime via television of dvd.

Also I never said I "mainly". Yes I do rent, but I've also bought the complete series of Karin, Comic Party and have also purchased several other series.

If you have a dvd player, why pay large amounts of cash to watch anime online? Netflix costs $4-5 a month and there is a wide selection of anime. But more than anything, its a personal preferance.
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pparker



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:09 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
It's not like you get to the keep the DVDs you rent, so why would you be adverse to "renting" a download, or paying for a streaming service?

Streaming is NOT the same as DVD, or of course fansubs for that matter.

For new shows not on R1 DVD, I pay for streaming, even letting shows run in the background so the site gets advertising credit, then I watch the fansubs. For shows that get licensed, that I've watched all the way through, I virtually always buy the DVDs because if I liked it enough to finish it, I'll probably want to watch again someday. It's highly unlikely those DVDs will still be in print 10 years from now based on the new industry economy (and the industry seems to have decided not to catalog streams, thinking it will cannabalize DVD sales, when the markets are pretty much entirely different and there is not enough history to support the decision yet).

I'm a collector as well as picky as to quality. I don't watch TV on my computer, but on my home theater plasma, whether streamed, fansub or DVD.

The real future of anime distribution will be download-to-own, and I mean actual DVDs/DVD quality, not highly-compressed "stream 720p" versions that look nothing like DVD on a 50" screen. That is the big elephant in the room that the industry keeps ignoring. They say streaming replaces fansubs. No... what fansubs give you is a copy of your own in high video/audio quality with passable translations depending on the group.

What beats fansubs is a DVD or high-quality transcode TV version that you can download and keep. For shows that don't warrant an R1 DVD release, you replace the original TV version with R2 DVD-subbed versions for download when available (what commonly happens for popular fansubs).

Oh, and as to the "junk" comment. Sorry... there are quite a few of my favorite shows that I consider to be far superior to some "junk" that gets licensed for R1. Licensing for DVD certainly has no direct correlation to quality. I could probably list 20 unlicensed shows that are better than Str.a.in, for instance.
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DaisakuKusama



Joined: 24 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The real future of anime distribution will be download-to-own, and I mean actual DVDs/DVD quality, not highly-compressed "stream 720p" versions that look nothing like DVD on a 50" screen. That is the big elephant in the room that the industry keeps ignoring. They say streaming replaces fansubs. No... what fansubs give you is a copy of your own in high video/audio quality with passable translations depending on the group.


Very well said. I've given up on Crunchyroll until I can find a computer that likes their streaming technology. Mine doesn't. Pity that, there are some shows that I would download-to-own in a heartbeat. But they don't offer this service, so I don't go there. I've tried. I mean, download to own Harlock? How much and where do I sign??
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TJ1132
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Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
AnimeCornerStore wrote:
Quote:
What this means specifically for the anime market is that while some series will be popular enough to warrant distribution both on DVD and online, smaller, more niche titles that would not be popular enough to justify an attempt at DVD distribution can now get a "fair chance" to reach audiences.


Replace the work 'niche' with 'junk' and I think you've made a more accurate representation of the argument. HEH.

Bob (aka Robert)
The Anime Corner Store

One man's junk is another man's niche. Obviously from your perspective any show that couldn't move a physical product is "junk," but that doesn't mean there's not value in making it available to more people in some way.

I hope you aren't advocating that the only shows that should be legally available are the ones popular enough to support a DVD release.


yeah, wow. i'm really surprised by such a negative comment. especially coming from bob at anime corner store. in fact, what turned me on to anime corner store in the first place is that i thought they had a lot of unique or "niche" type stuff. even though i may agree that there is a lot of poor quality anime out there, i certainly wouldn't go as far as to generalize all "niche" as "junk." in fact, i thought what kun gao said was actually pretty good. even though a show may be considered a "niche" title now, if it gets enough web exposure and gains popularity, it may draw interest from potential licensors/etc..etc.. in the future.

anyways. i'd really like to think that samuelp and i misinterpreted your comment somehow. would love to hear your response...

TJ
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