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Monogatari is a Disaster


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bobob101



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:22 am Reply with quote
I think disaster is a poor way to describe monogatari. Its more like if anime fans elected a former circus freak to become a spokesman or something. The fact that my metaphor doesn't make sense just helps to prove my point.

There is a lot of bullshit sister-[expletive] pedophile nonsense in the monogatari series that I can't get behind. And there is a lot of crazy art styles, off the wall personalities, and leaps of logic that surpass human understanding that I totally do get behind. I'd say that the first season is the most "digestible" for someone new to the franchise, but the whole thing is an experience unlike any other. Take that as a strength or weakness.
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Sailor Sedna



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 1038
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:39 am Reply with quote
Pedophile stuff in Monogotari? Shocked

I'm out. Neutral
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Reighe



Joined: 07 Aug 2015
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:53 am Reply with quote
bobob101 wrote:
I think disaster is a poor way to describe monogatari.
Well, I personally would use "a lucky combination". It should usually be a simple disaster, but by some stroke of luck exactly the right people come in exactly the right combination that it works so magnificently well.
bobob101 wrote:
Its more like if anime fans elected a former circus freak to become a spokesman or something. The fact that my metaphor doesn't make sense just helps to prove my point.
This is a Zaregoto reference, I assume.
Sailor Sedna wrote:
Pedophile stuff in Monogotari? Shocked
Koyomi having a girlfriend only unhinges him, now knowing he has the perfect excuse against anyone who tries to take him seriously, like you. I should follow his example.
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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1426
Location: Europa
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:57 am Reply with quote
Sailor Sedna wrote:
Pedophile stuff in Monogotari? Shocked

I'm out. Neutral

Thats how middle school fanvervice is seen these days?
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Random 21



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 198
Location: Nottingham, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:00 am Reply with quote
Rederoin wrote:
Sailor Sedna wrote:
Pedophile stuff in Monogotari? Shocked

I'm out. Neutral

Thats how middle school fanvervice is seen these days?


Except that Hachikuji is in elementary school.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2296
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:09 am Reply with quote
Nisio Isin is one of my favorite writers, and his style is easily recognizable in many of his works, but I definitely agree that most people will either love or hate it, with little middle ground. In Monogatari specifically, even, there are times I love his stuff and there are times I hate them, like parts of Nise and Neko: Kuro.

I also really like how Shaft goes about animating Nisio Isin's work. Being such a wordy-dialogue piece, things could go boring very fast, but Shaft always manages to put something interesting on screen even if what you're watching is a 5 minute monologue. I find that, Medaka Box, for instance, failed on that, not making any of the animation interesting and generally not working well with Nisio's pace.

I have encountered a lot of people that say that Bake is the only 'arc' worth it and the rest is garbage, but most of it seems to come from the fact that Nise is extremely polarizing and a lot of people don't even bother with the rest after that. Nise takes a big turn to the sexual/fetishistic, and while in a way its pace is actually faster than Bakemonogatari's (which took 15 episodes to cover two books, while Nise took 11 episodes), the first arc is almost half re-introduction to characters and their comedy quirks while the plot brews in the background. Personally, I find it even better than Bake (which, apart from the visual aesthetics I found to be rather generic in its harem-like "save girl of the week" approach). However, my favorite by far is Second Season, where I can't put a single one of its arcs below any of the other arcs animated so far, and I find a rather large amount of people agree with me.
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amagee



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 333
Location: Orlando, FL
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:26 am Reply with quote
Love the editorial! This is pretty much how I feel about the entirety of the Monogatari series (barring my lack of knowledge about film making techniques mentioned here).

Quote:
When he digresses into wordplay and sex jokes, I tune out.


While the quality of the sex jokes depends on the scene for me, I'm a big fan of language play and I've always wished I could have some sort of gigantic book of translation notes so that I could understand all of those. I'm not sure if anyone else feels the same way but it always irks me when I can tell he's made a language joke and I've been totally left behind.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:41 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The conventional wisdom is that all these shows are just “SHAFT's house style,” a style directly reflective of director Akiyuki Shinbo's sensibilities, but the truth is a bit more complicated. If you take a look at Shaft's output, you swiftly notice that pretty much every recent show says “directed by Akiyuki Shinbo” - he's essentially become not just a person, but a brand label, a popular name stamped on top of a variety of other directors.


Can't remember whether I tried to sample half an episode of Bake or Nise, but the "art is explosive!" manga-visual gimmick of subliminal-flashing symbolic

B-O-L-D

suoitneterPretentious

textbombs
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textbombs

at us every other minute for literally no reason except some notion of Greek-chorusing what we were supposed to be paying attention to, as if he was either too artsy-bored or ADD'ed to follow his own story, had me running screaming from the series long before the first commercial break faster than you can say "Revolutionary Girl Utena".

Like some of the later Oshii or Inuhara, it has the distinct feeling of a name director who Just Found Out He's A Genius, and that would pretty much describe Shinbo in spades.
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desk-of-max



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:50 am Reply with quote
I don't like Nick Creamer's writing/critiquing style. I find it redundant and barbed. Watch more anime. Confused
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Cyclone1993



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 945
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:52 am Reply with quote
Ahh the Monogatari series. The series I initially watched almost entirely because of Shinobu. I started with Bakemonogatari and I wasn't entirely sure how I felt about it. The first two arcs were dense, slow, and hinged too much on Japanese legends and wordplay I didn't understand.

Then the Kanbaru arc hit. And I loved it. I thought it was well written, and very interesting while going in different directions with its plot. Using word play and the like to defeat the enemy? I adore word play and logic puzzles so that just fascinated me.

I kept watching and then I realized the series was hitting some pretty high emotional points, which went pretty deep into some intriguing psychological issues. I was eager to start Nise and Neko right away.

I ended up liking Nise even more than Bake, but I can't exactly put my finger on why. It might have to do with being increasingly aware and understanding the characters better, as well as updated animation techniques. The world of Monogatari had grown on me.

I consumed the rest of the series and loved nearly everything about it. The characters, the cuts, the animation, the way the screen reveals information. All of it. I have to agree that Second Season is probably the highlight of the franchise because it goes deep on characters and brings them together and makes the audience care about them.

Hana is probably my favorite arc though. The discussions on morality and character study bring it to a different level.

I can't really consider each season my favorite anime. But together, the franchise it has created is easily one of my favorites. So much character development and wordplay it really isn't like any other anime. So I can see why it's divisive. But to me it's one of my favorites and I can't wait to see what is in store in the future!
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Azmodeus



Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 185
Location: Sweden, ass end of nowhere
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:57 am Reply with quote
Much as i've come to terms with the fact that Nick and i love the Monogatari franchise equaly for completly opposite reasons, i must dissagree with the notion that it changes in a way that "betrays" it's audience expectation. Both the psychological thriller aspects and the fan-servicey wordplay aspects are both introduced in the first two arcs, being built up up to varying degrees in both.

one thing i'm surprised none of Nicks writings on the show has hit upon is how it also simultaneusly Deconstructs and recontructs every trope of the supernatural harem Subgenre by playing each and everyon eof them absolutly straight. So straight , that the curves and corretions of their trajectory becomes apperant by the lack of them here. Everything from how the MC's relatability affects his competence, the haremettes dependency/codependence/independence, the humanity (or lack thereof) inherent in the supernatural elements and the values of youthfull optimism vs. "adult" cynisism are all introduced as they ususally are presented in other shows and then played out without self-insertition as it's optimal goal, untill it becomes supreme self-insertion in not showing who we want to be but who we could become. It's a perfect orouborous of genre fiction.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1305
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:59 am Reply with quote
Yes, this series absolutely showcases paedophilia: mostly toying with it, but sometimes it goes into creeper territory and becomes repulsive.

Otherwise, this project has rambling and confusing storytelling, but still makes some sense in bigger level, if you take effort in connecting the dots.


Last edited by MaxSouth on Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:09 am Reply with quote
That title was one of the greatest hooks I've seen in quite a while. Yet, completely appropriate. Laughing

The first time I watched Bakemonogatari I didn't really like it at all, to be honest. It gave me a headache, it was weird, the animation was all over the place and the dialogue meandered all over the place with mostly pointless conversation. A few months later I decided to keep going and watched Nise and Neko. I absolutely adored both parts. Neko really delved into Hanekawa's story and I loved it. I related to her a lot and she is now one of my favorite anime characters. That was also where I fell in love with NisiOisin. The guy can write characters. That's when I went back and rewatched Bakemonogatari and took a trip through the entire show, including Second Season, in about a week. All in all, it is now one of my favorite shows and NisiOisin is one of my favorite writers. Looking back, all I can think of, as to why I didn't really like Bake in the beginning, was that I must have just been in a completely wrong mood. Confused

Cyclone1993 wrote:
I ended up liking Nise even more than Bake, but I can't exactly put my finger on why. It might have to do with being increasingly aware and understanding the characters better, as well as updated animation techniques. The world of Monogatari had grown on me.


Ditto. I know why I liked Nise better though. I'm sure people will judge me for it, but the fanservice is what captured me. The way it was handled was original and stylistic in a way that was both amusing and alluring. I guess I'm just a pervert though. Razz
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Angel M Cazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:16 am Reply with quote
I think Nick does a great job conveying what makes Monogatari both an appealing and appalling anime. I am for the most part cool with Isin's writing. The only that thing turns me off from Monogatari is its poor excuses for fanservice, especially if Koyomi and his sisters are involved.

Monogatari is one my favorites anime franchises. This is how I rank its different entries:
1. Bakemonogatari
2. Hanamonogatari
3. Second Season
4. Nisemonogatari
5. Nekomonogatari Black
6. Tsukimonogatari
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CaRoss



Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 451
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:24 am Reply with quote
Great write up. The Monogatari franchise is one of those weird beasts. It has some seriously abhorrent content (almost anytime Araragi and Mayoi are on screen together after her first arc, and a lot of stuff between him and his sisters), but is also one of the most engaging and well written series out there.

It tends to jump between one of those series I absolutely want to recommend (like Fullmetal Alchemist, Death Note, or Trigun), but is held back by the knowledge that it is also one of the most fanservicey series out there. And somehow it makes it all mesh into, and I love how you described it, a mess that is totally worth watching.

Anyway, this article revealed some things that I didn't know about the franchise, and just instilled another wave of "why hasn't the Kizu film released yet?" - thankfully we're getting the novel here in November. My personal favourite thing about this series is how it can take characters I can barely stand, like Tsubasa or Sengoku (I'm unashamedly a Kanbaru fanboy), and make some story arcs that just blow me away, and sit as my favourites in the series (Nekomonogatari Kuro is my personal favourite).

I do have to say, I would love to see an editorial like this focused on some of Isin's other works. It would be very interesting to read your opinions on Medaka Box and/or Katanagatari (I personally enjoy Katanagatari a lot more than Monogatari, which says a lot since I adore Monogatari).
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