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#861208



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 318
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:45 pm Reply with quote
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What you're talking about is called a "vanity project."


So anyone other than an animator writing a story to try to make into a film/series is just making a vanity project?

Are all playwrights making vanity projects until they find a director?

Is everything from Kickstarter just a vanity project, then?

I'm writing a novel, and once I get an audience, I would like to make a kickstarter for an animated adaptation. The person asking the question was basically asking "What connections would I need to get an anime made? Don't just tell me it's too expensive". The answer was basically, "Whatever you've written must be bad, so the studio won't care." How do you know it's bad and they won't care? Is everyone who hasn't been picked up by a major Japanese publisher automatically a bad writer?

There are good pieces of writing that are currently too small to get the attention of a production committee, or that aren't considered "marketable" as anime, but that the world would benefit from an anime adaptation. It's sort of pessimistic to tailor a response to a lackluster "vanity project" instead of to this situation.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:02 pm Reply with quote
#861208 wrote:
How do you know it's bad and they won't care? Is everyone who hasn't been picked up by a major Japanese publisher automatically a bad writer?


"Good" or "Bad" (or somewhere in between) is in the eye of the beholder. In the entertainment industry the only thing that is important is the ability make the payroll. (I.M.O., of course!)
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YamiWheeler



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:05 pm Reply with quote
#861208 wrote:
So anyone other than an animator writing a story to try to make into a film/series is just making a vanity project?

The asker clearly stated that they would be covering all of the costs in this hypothetical situation, so, yes, it almost certainly is a "vanity project" in that case. If a creator has to cover the costs like that, it means that they either a) failed to secure any backing, which means that the project is probably commercially unviable, or b) they want to avoid dealing with other companies' money and the strings that come associated with that, thus it's most likely someone who wants their product made to their exact specifications... which means that the end result will likely be commercially unviable.

#861208 wrote:
I'm writing a novel, and once I get an audience, I would like to make a kickstarter for an animated adaptation.

The fact that you're talking about Kickstarter and an animated adaptation before having even finished your novel already rings alarm bells.

#861208 wrote:
There are good pieces of writing that are currently too small to get the attention of a production committee, or that aren't considered "marketable" as anime, but that the world would benefit from an anime adaptation.

Who decides what the "world would benefit from"? The fact is, anime is an industry. It's a business. People don't make anime for the hell of it, they do it because they think it will be profitable. It doesn't always turn out to be, but that's the intention.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:10 pm Reply with quote
A few years ago Justin Sevakis wrote several pieces on how the anime industry works, and he said that a 12 episodes series typically cost between 2.5-3 million US dollars. I assume costs have risen since, but I have to imagine that if I showed up at the offices of a Japanese anime studio with 5 million dollars and demanded to have a 12 episodes series made, regardless of the kind of project, they would take me very seriously.
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YamiWheeler



Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
A few years ago Justin Sevakis wrote several pieces on how the anime industry works, and he said that a 12 episodes series typically cost between 2.5-3 million US dollars. I assume costs have risen since, but I have to imagine that if I showed up at the offices of a Japanese anime studio with 5 million dollars and demanded to have a 12 episodes series made, regardless of the kind of project, they would take me very seriously.

They would pretend to take you seriously. In their minds, they'd be thinking that you have no idea what you're doing or what you're setting yourself up for, because you wouldn't, but hey, it's an easy 3 million dollars.
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mgosdin



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1172
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:42 pm Reply with quote
If an Agent / Banker / Attorney or a combination of the three showed up at the Studio's office with a proposal backed by your $5 million dollars, they would be inclined to take it much more seriously even if they still thought you were missing a few screws. Still there is a saying that the best way to make a small fortune in business is to start with a large one. Laughing

On the subject of food, now that we have several markets closer to us - one within walking distance - we find ourselves following the "as you go" meal plan with "bi-weekly" shopping restricted to items that a 5 person family would normally buy in bulk regardless. It is a good deal healthier than the old "Open a Can" meals that I ate in my youth.

Mark Gosdin
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The closest thing I can think of to an outright vanity project anime being produced by someone out-of-pocket would be Madhouse's production of Glenn Danzig's pilot video for his comic series "Satanika" back in 1998


Don't forget the Shelter music video that crunchy helped to materialize recently. This would also be in the "vanity project" category since the musician had no experience with animation and there is no music label mentioned at all at the end of the video when the credits roll so he must have paid out of his own pocket (although less than six minutes costs no doubt less money than a 24 minutes ova).

Quote:
If they consider it a well-paid waste of time, they may subcontract significant chunks of the creative work to cheaper countries (like Korea or China) without telling you directly. They use those countries for the less creative parts of making every anime anyway.


Then why bother at all? Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon do their animation at Korea and China routinely without having a middleman.
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BethanyP



Joined: 25 Nov 2016
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:51 pm Reply with quote
It's normal to buy food a week in advance here in the UK, and fresh food is far more a matter of what's affordable as opposed to what keeps. Processed and/or frozen food is invariably cheaper. Fresh - that is to say, not frozen - fish is especially expensive these days.

If you can't make your vegetables last a week then quite frankly you're not storing them properly
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 2184
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The closest thing I can think of to an outright vanity project anime being produced by someone out-of-pocket would be Madhouse's production of Glenn Danzig's pilot video for his comic series "Satanika" back in 1998,
Wasn't the second M.D Geist OVA a vanity project? I saw it on Anime Abandon, and that seemed to be how the second one came about.
#861208 wrote:
Is everything from Kickstarter just a vanity project, then?

There are good pieces of writing that are currently too small to get the attention of a production committee, or that aren't considered "marketable" as anime, but that the world would benefit from an anime adaptation. It's sort of pessimistic to tailor a response to a lackluster "vanity project" instead of to this situation.
Kickstarter, a lot of the time, is more like wish fulfilment, and not always in a bad way. Anime fans love to throw the word marketable around as a dirty word. In reality if something is unmarketable, then no one wants it, and if no one wants it then you not providing anything.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 3315
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The answer is still "no, and they never have." Every once in a while someone suggests such a thing, usually in an effort to reduce confusion in dealing with overseas countries that do observe Daylight Savings Time. (It never gets much traction.)


Twice a year by the clock, we get the "Why do we even have DST?" questions--
As I always heard it, it dates back to Ben Franklin, who proposed the idea as a service more for farmers than for average folk who wanted to enjoy daylight.
Obviously, our farmers aren't their farmers, which also explains the difference with other traditions that grew out of farm-colony concerns, such as school summer breaks over there.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 3570
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:12 pm Reply with quote
I've always thought that if I became super wealthy, one of the first things I'd do is fund an adaptation of Saya No Uta. It would more or less still be in the same vein as a vanity project, but it would certainly require that I have dealings with Nitroplus, Urobuchi, and more or less act as a producer for the project. I have an entire dream staff, including all of the smaller roles that many people probably don't think of already thought through. Laughing
Yes, this is all just for fun, of course, but it's something friends and I like to talk about from time to time.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 12338
Location: Windsor Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:04 pm Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:
Twice a year by the clock, we get the "Why do we even have DST?" questions--
As I always heard it, it dates back to Ben Franklin, who proposed the idea as a service more for farmers than for average folk who wanted to enjoy daylight.
Obviously, our farmers aren't their farmers, which also explains the difference with other traditions that grew out of farm-colony concerns, such as school summer breaks over there.


Actually it was some guy named George Hudson who wanted more daylight so he could collect bugs. Seriously.

It was first put into practice by Kaiser Wilhelm during WWI as an energy saving measure.

But seriously, DLS. Why is this still a thing? I eagerly await it's ending so we get shows an hour earlier.

Also ANN why don't you have a DLS option in your forum settings? I have to manually change my time zone twice a year instead.
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Emdykay



Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Questions like the second always make me wonder what the figures to build a studio up from scratch, even if just for a really small one solely doing some contract work, considering equipment, rent etc., would be.


relyat08 wrote:
I've always thought that if I became super wealthy, one of the first things I'd do is fund an adaptation of Saya No Uta. It would more or less still be in the same vein as a vanity project, but it would certainly require that I have dealings with Nitroplus, Urobuchi, and more or less act as a producer for the project. I have an entire dream staff, including all of the smaller roles that many people probably don't think of already thought through. Laughing
Yes, this is all just for fun, of course, but it's something friends and I like to talk about from time to time.


While I would actually hate to see Saya no Uta actually being adapted, because I consider it one of those works that can not be improved by animating it but rather only be weakened as some of its important stylistic devices only work "on paper", I actually am curious to how that staff would look like and the approach of adapting it.
I would pick Berserk instead and start over from scratch as I am not content with any of its adaptions^^
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3267
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:43 pm Reply with quote
I wish the Netflix would call their shows Netflix Exclusives rather than the misnomer, Netflix "Originals". I mean, Amazon doesn't label their exclusive streaming anime "Amazon Originals" but rather and more accurately, exclusive.

And not being the producer or master rights holder, we sell all the non-streaming versions come through other publishers. I'm sure if these were truly Netflix produced orignals, Netflix would love to be the exclusive profiteer of all the releases of their show too, but of course that isn't the case.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2173
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Emdykay wrote:
I would pick Berserk instead and start over from scratch as I am not content with any of its adaptions^^


Since we are daydreaming I will join the fray, if I got loads of money I would start small, one 24 minutes OVA is a very BIG project IMO. Also, even if I am daydreaming I have no expectation whatsoever that any famous mangaka would accept to lend their intellectual property to john mcnoone (can you say three times fast MACROSS?), but I would do the same the MAD magazine did in the 60s and make parodies that can't be done in japan because it is illegal there (unless you OWN said franchise like in Carnival Phantasm). Also, I would go direct to Korea, Dr Movie did a fantastic job with Avatar and they are used to doing jobs with zero emotional investment (as in, you dont have to convince them you are serious).

Anyone else wants to take a sip of this pipe dream, this is powerful stuff Anime hyper
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