Forum - View topic
Answerman - Why Are Some Anime Fans So Cynical?


Goto page   Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 2324
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:18 pm Reply with quote
My least favourite complaint, and the one I've heard the longest, is X is killing Anime. Which I think originally was Shojo or something in the 90s, then "generic Acton Shonen" in the late 90s and 00s and now it is either Moe/Slice of Life or Fanservice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 1402
Location: A Cave Filled With Riches
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, I know I'm very cynical about anime nowadays. All I see now is too much fanserves, too many teenage protagonist, too many middle/high school anime, etc. I miss the way anime used to be, from the 80's and 90's. There wasn't a lot of pressure back then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Just Passing Through



Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 196
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Ask a local UK distributor if they're going to licence your favourite anime, on a monthly basis, for a year, with no answer...

Get fed up waiting, and import. After it's posted, and while waiting for it to be delivered, UK company announces that they have the license.

Have that happen ten times... Cynicism becomes the only alternative to suicide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tentensan



Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 91
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:25 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
My least favourite complaint, and the one I've heard the longest, is X is killing Anime. Which I think originally was Shojo or something in the 90s, then "generic Acton Shonen" in the late 90s and 00s and now it is either Moe/Slice of Life or Fanservice.


Yeah. That is the most stupid criticism. However, I believe that I'm the type of anime fanatic that makes my criticism vary based on the anime. Like, if I'm going to judge an idol anime, or an action anime, or even a horror, gorey type anime, I should focus on what the anime's focus is and who the audience is. I mean, for an idol anime, I won't judge the plot too harshly or anything because I know what I'm going in for. Just something fun and full of music. I feel like people go into shows and breaks on them too harshly. Don't get me wrong though, criticism is needed or nothing would be improved. However, people shouldn't go into something knowing that what their looking for isn't there and then complain about it. It boggles my mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 3737
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:29 pm Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
Someone who got into anime for the super-violent weird OVAs they used to make and just doesn't like the sort of shows that get simulcast these days. ....and "Guh, most of this season's shows seem pretty derivative. Look, FIVE harem shows, and three moe slice-of-life shows." These are valid statements, even if you, personally, aren't sick of these things and the statements are bumming you out more than the things they're complaining about.


While in some respects valid, I think these complaints can also be considered "Lazy Cynicism" personally. I've been keeping up with seasonal anime for half a decade and during that time there has almost always been a significant amount of variety that people making these complaints haven't even looked for. If you want trashy super violent anime, watch Juuni Taisen, King's Game, EVIL or LIVE, GARO, or even BBB&B this season, for example. There are 40+ shows per season to choose from, if there are 5 Harems and 3 moe shows, you still have 30+ shows to pick from. Stop whining like a little child about that 20% that you think is killing anime and do 5 minutes of research. Maybe you will have to skip a season occasionally, but by-and-large, there will almost always be a couple of shows for anyone who has a reasonably broad interest in the medium.
All of this falls in with the other lazy and frustrating complaint "This season is terrible" or "The worst we've had in a long time". It depends on who's saying it, and I have said it before myself, but there are people who say this literally every season and they are usually the people who don't take that 5 minutes to do some dang research.


Last edited by relyat08 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Wtv



Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:29 pm Reply with quote
I disagree that it's fair to complain about too many harem or slice of life shows. Because in the end, there's always too many of something. In the 90s, it was too much shounen and Mecha shows. I'm not a fan of those now, so I'm happy that we have more diversity of genres nowadays, because yes, anime is more diverse than ever. I really hate harem animes, but I won't complain about them, since there's always something else I want to watch.

Now, if someone really believes anime nowadays doesn't appeal to them, maybe they should just drop it. It makes no sense to keep watching something you don't like anymore. Once I almost dropped anime because it was just too much shounen and I got tired of it, but discovering slice of life made me keep up.

Wanting the kind of anime you dislike to disappear is just egoistic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ArnisEnthusiast



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:35 pm Reply with quote
I came to this article with low expectations but am pleasantly surprised. This is a very good way of putting it. Glad to see a pop culture journo understand that a certain kind of cynicism is understandable.

The different between reactive cynicism and predictive cynicism is an important one. I try my best to avoid the latter but it can be difficult at times. I currently have to avoid all of the predictive cynicism over the Legend of the Galactic Heroes 2018 anime. Gotta look at things objectively.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Parsifal24



Joined: 20 Apr 2010
Posts: 927
Location: Holland MI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:36 pm Reply with quote
I find the idea of hating your fellow fans constantly bemoaning the fact that things are not like they where in the 90s, attacking companies and holding weird grudges over dub choices that company made or who they choose to employ or the awkward social media presence of some English Language Voice Actors. Essentially the kind of stuff that drove me away from Anime Outsiders makes me think "you know if it bothers you that much you can leave."

Also I think sometimes what is thought of as Cynicism can simply be burnout and taking a break or disengaging from certain aspects of the fandom community or social media can be a good idea. Or re-familiarizing yourself with why you love the medium can help as well. Yet some I think just love being contrary for the sake of being contrary and that ultimately is just Ego.


Last edited by Parsifal24 on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NiPah



Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:36 pm Reply with quote
Cynicism inception, when you’re being cynical of cynicism.
Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Artesox



Joined: 19 Dec 2014
Posts: 82
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:47 pm Reply with quote
The absurd cynicism of the fanbase has a few roots. One is the natural state of any hobby with a huge 20s something NEET population. The other is the fact many anime fans never seem to outgrow their fear that their parents will walk into their room, as such, they are constantly on a quest to seek acceptance, and when that fails, it turns into self-depreciation. Finally, the very reviewer culture of this hobby.

The state of western anime "critique" almost feels like parody at times, like a room full of people who declare themselves to know all about Federico Fellini's work, yet nobody knows a word of Italian, has read any interviews or papers on him or has watched more than 1/4 of his work. It's all guesswork, most critics are absolutely ignorant about the history of the medium to absurd extents, deflecting all criticism with "it's my opinion". In the vacuum of meaningful content what shines is these people's egos, and there is a huge intersection between inflated egos and cynicism.

Animechic420 wrote:
Yeah, I know I'm very cynical about anime nowadays. All I see now is too much fanserves, too many teenage protagonist, too many middle/high school anime, etc. I miss the way anime used to be, from the 80's and 90's. There wasn't a lot of pressure back then.


Do you come from some alternate universe where the 80's was entirely different, didn't have shows like Dirty Pair or Machiko-sensei, Dragon Ball was not full of Bulma nudity and Studio Pierrot's magical girl series didn't slowly devolve into having way too much odd stuff with its young protagonists?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
angelmcazares
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 3616
Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Interesting question. I have definitely seen the two kinds of cynicism Justin describes. I am way more bothered by the lazy cynics who hate English dubs and the ones that say that anime from before the year 2000 was the best and that anime from the this century is all shit.

Last edited by angelmcazares on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
GhostD



Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:56 pm Reply with quote
As someone whos also been exposed to the inner workings of the industry a long time ago, this article made me realize that Im getting old and that enjoying anime, manga, light novels and so on is what kept me feeling young for this long even with all the pains and problems of real life getting in the way.

I guess thats why I try not to get cynical as a fan even when certain tropes and stories are repeated an absurd number of times that lots of people wouldve gotten tired of it a long time ago but sometimes you just cant help it. Like Justin says we all get tired at some point which sometimes results in lazy cynicism and we just need to learn how to keep it in check


Last edited by GhostD on Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Connor Dino



Joined: 20 Dec 2010
Posts: 16
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:57 pm Reply with quote
Sick of social media? I wonder if that aspect applies to a certain youtuber and his new (terrible) idea of turning off his comments because he thinks commentators on youtube are beneath him and his material is equivalent to art (even though art gets critiqued all the time but whatever...). Pretty cynical in my opinion.

Getting back on topic, I would love to see an answerman talking about critics/reporters on anime and their feelings about anime after several years of doing it. How their material/reviews gets better or worse over time, ect. How they got into it or why they still do it now and why licensing companies decide to work with them, despite the copyright claims Japanese companies sometimes direct their way. There is a dichotomy there that would be interesting to explore.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
addiemon



Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
Some of us just hide it better than others. (Hint: those people work in marketing.)


That's a rock fact.

(No, really, I work in marketing. All those people work in marketing...though not all people in marketing are those people.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bunnymuncher65



Joined: 04 Dec 2017
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:12 pm Reply with quote
I don't think these types of cynicism are isolated to anime. I come from the generation where I watched anime without knowing it was anime. I was reintroduced to it by my son ironically. I watch a little bit of everything (well I try).

I used to read and review romance novels. At one time I was even an editor for a small erotic romance e-pub. I found myself falling into the exhausted cynicism category. Everyone thought they could write romance. All the stories, characters sounded exactly the same. I decided that taking a break from it was the best way to go. I think the same goes for anime. I am not burned out (yet Shocked ). I keep on finding something to watch and enjoying myself immensely. My son, on the other hand, has dropped the amount of shows he watches seasonally pretty drastically. He wasn't finding what he wanted, but he definitely doesn't discourage me from watching and he talks to me about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page   Next
Page 1 of 11

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Loading next article...