Forum - View topic
Answerman - Are Artists Apologizing and Self-Censoring More These Days?


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 907
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:14 pm Reply with quote
About SAO scene. I think there sill some confusion because of the translation of the twitter.
Kawahara Reki didn't regretted write the scene and din't apologize for that
When he apologize to the VAs was because it was a very difficult scene and the VAs had to give their all to make it work.

It was more like "sorry to have write such a difficult scene and thank you for you make such amazing work on it"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1659
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:15 pm Reply with quote
I feel like the answer was kind of off the mark. Yes, their is more social media and interaction and so there are more responses; but at the same time it seems to be going well past the apologizing for any "wrong" behavior and offense to the "audience" and things are getting censored and apologized for that I think the majority could care less about. At worst harmless faux paux, and best pandering to vocal extreme niche groups. Answerman seems to be implying that all of these apologies were warranted and crossing of some unwritten line; where as I think the real issue should they even be apologizing for this in the first place.

I mean the whole Olympics thing is more on point, why should Japan apologize for/ or hide their sexual preferences to appease a few foreign countries? An extreme version is the Sony as a whole censoring or blocking games that don't follow US morals.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Marzan



Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:33 pm Reply with quote
I think artists should stop apologizing for everything under the sun. It seems to me that the new puritanism we see developing and spreading through social media is not a Western only phenomenon. Sad days when artists feel they have to apologize to appease the loudest screamers online.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fluwm



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 246
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:35 pm Reply with quote
God save us all from otaku whining about "censorship."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2114
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:41 pm Reply with quote
I think you're underplaying the Olympic factor actually. TV, government and other more obvious media definitely have it forefront on their minds, but that (and the pervasive media propaganda about it) seep into the general population, and there is definitely a general "we are being watched by the whole world now" sentiment that is growing ever stronger.
It was there beforehand, sure, but the Olympics have hightended it considerably.

As for how much this might have influenced any individual creator, who knows, but it definitely has.

I can tell you I've seen pitches for anime adaptations made by Japanese people for Japanese people where some of the bullet points are "doesn't contain characters that are overly sexy" and "doesn't have violence that would be an issue with international sales".
Is that directly related to the Olympics? No, but it all mixes together in people's subconscious.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
zrnzle500
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3581
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Jonny Mendes wrote:
About SAO scene. I think there sill some confusion because of the translation of the twitter.
Kawahara Reki didn't regretted write the scene and din't apologize for that
When he apologize to the VAs was because it was a very difficult scene and the VAs had to give their all to make it work.

It was more like "sorry to have write such a difficult scene and thank you for you make such amazing work on it"


But how would you explain the later tweet(s) where he speaks about his use of those kind of scenes?

Quote:
"This may be a bit late, but if you're wondering why SAO has so many of those scenes, a considerable number of light novels (although they weren't called light novels back then), epic sagas, and adventure stories I read back in middle school contained those plot elements. I would cite Ōgun Hakusha (Gold Spur) as a representative title. My writing was bound to that as if it were under a spell.

"These days, the spell has finally worn off. Nowadays I would prefer to express catharsis through other means. If it was an absolutely necessary scene for the story, I would write it, but I would prefer to do that in a book that isn't a light novel."


I could see maybe that earliest tweet where he apologized to the VAs being read differently, but I'm not sure that above part fits into the whole narrative that Kawahara was apologizing for the technical difficulty of the scene, and not that he recognized that his handling of the issue in the past has not been the best, to put it mildly, and he would avoid writing it unless it was absolutely necessary, and even then not in a LN. Also, I'm not sure what else would make the scene so difficult from a voice acting perspective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 4678
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:07 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
And in cases where the creative choice that pissed everyone off was very intentional, the artist might dig in their heels and ignore the fans, or be curt with them.


Artists should do this more, and not cower before these so-called fans and their childish "That's so offensive!" reactions. No one is putting a gun to these whiners' heads and telling them to accept content they may not find acceptable. They apparently never learned to ignore it and move on.

Marzan wrote:
I think artists should stop apologizing for everything under the sun. It seems to me that the new puritanism we see developing and spreading through social media is not a Western only phenomenon. Sad days when artists feel they have to apologize to appease the loudest screamers online.


Agreed. I'm worried we're going to eventually reach a point where these easily offended crybaby fans are going to dictate how artists should proceed with even a simple drawing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Merida
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1940
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
No, I don't think the Olympics have anything to do with this at all. The pre-Olympics clean-up has more to do with making Japan appear "better" to other visiting nations when it's on the world's stage, things like its homeless population, its human rights and human trafficking records, and porn that would run afoul of international moral standards.


I wonder how commercial whaling fits into this...

As for people whining about Japan "giving up it's culture" for the Olympics, i really don't think making sexually explicit and/or offensive anime is such an important part of Japanese culture as some western anime fans seem to believe it to be. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Trendo



Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:44 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:
But how would you explain the later tweet(s) where he speaks about his use of those kind of scenes?

The important part is still this sentence "If it was an absolutely necessary scene for the story, I would write it, but I would prefer to do that in a book that isn't a light novel."
He would still write it if HE thinks its necessary for the story. He only said, because Lightnovels are most time for teenagers etc., such scenes are not suitable for young audience.
How lucky that books can be also made in anime.

Merida wrote:
i really don't think making sexually explicit and/or offensive anime is such an important part of Japanese culture as some western anime fans seem to believe it to be. Rolling Eyes
Wrong
It has nothing to do with animes, japanese media is much more "open" with things like that. Did you ever watched some variety shows from japan? Did you ever read some books from japan like some with rape-content?
What about the fact that Mangaka like Ken Akamatsu etc. were against a new law in Tokyo, where some content should be banned?
And lets not forget the UN appeal in 2016 about the ban for Lolis, Sexual Violence etc. in media, which Japan rejected.
What is with their old depiction of Art (Women with tentacles) etc.
Of course its a part of their culture, otherwise it wouldnt make any sense why Japan rejected so many things from the western world and why so many Mangakas are against any changes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Merida
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1940
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:01 pm Reply with quote
^That's all well and good, but i still doubt that the average Japanese person considers any of that to be a particularly important part of their culture...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 907
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:13 pm Reply with quote
zrnzle500 wrote:

But how would you explain the later tweet(s) where he speaks about his use of those kind of scenes?

Quote:
"This may be a bit late, but if you're wondering why SAO has so many of those scenes, a considerable number of light novels (although they weren't called light novels back then), epic sagas, and adventure stories I read back in middle school contained those plot elements. I would cite Ōgun Hakusha (Gold Spur) as a representative title. My writing was bound to that as if it were under a spell.

"These days, the spell has finally worn off. Nowadays I would prefer to express catharsis through other means. If it was an absolutely necessary scene for the story, I would write it, but I would prefer to do that in a book that isn't a light novel."


I could see maybe that earliest tweet where he apologized to the VAs being read differently, but I'm not sure that above part fits into the whole narrative that Kawahara was apologizing for the technical difficulty of the scene, and not that he recognized that his handling of the issue in the past has not been the best, to put it mildly, and he would avoid writing it unless it was absolutely necessary, and even then not in a LN. Also, I'm not sure what else would make the scene so difficult from a voice acting perspective.

From what i understand he was referring about how he used that plot device too many times in a single story. As he grow up as a author he found out other ways to make express the same feelings without the overuse of attempted rape device.
Also, because LNs that he want to write are read not only by young adults but also by teens, overusing it would not be a good thing.

But he never show regret about using it on SAO, he only express that nowadays he have another way of writhing those scenes .

From a VA perspective, and also as a other actor perspective, emotional difficult scenes like a rape scene or a death of a important person scene are probably the most difficult ones to do because involve extreme emotions. So a VA or actor be able to do such a scene and express such emotions speak volumes of the talent of the actor. That's why he put those tweets for the VAs.
Also the scene on the anime is allot more extreme than on the LN, so a big part of it came from the anime director that make the scene even more difficult..

Merida wrote:
^That's all well and good, but i still doubt that the average Japanese person considers any of that to be a particularly important part of their culture...

The average Japanese person have the thinking of "as long as you keep your hobbies to yourself, everything is fine, just don't go brag outside of your private life.


Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:50 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trendo



Joined: 07 Jun 2018
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Merida wrote:
^That's all well and good, but i still doubt that the average Japanese person considers any of that to be a particularly important part of their culture...
Ahhh....okay, lets use the typical argument "a average citizen would not agree with that"
In that case I can use the argument "I know some people from japan, they dont have a problem with such content as long they dont see it, because they dont have any interest in hobbys, life etc. from other people. Everyone minds his own business in this country, which is something the western world should also do
Also they agree with the fact, that people should have the chance to express themselve how they want as long they dont shove this in the face of other people.
Sorry for my bad english, but as a japanese citizen I really hate it if people think that they know my country better than me......otherwise I would avoid such a discussion thanks to my language barrier
And please dont see this as a attack against your opinion. Its okay if your country thinks that some things are not okay, but it doesnt change that some countrys have not the same opinion

@Jonny Mendes
Exactly.....im happy to see, that some people can still understand what Kawahara really said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FinalVentCard



Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:55 pm Reply with quote
I remember an Answerman from like 4 years ago; the jist of what Justin said back then was "We're in an era where more and more people are recognizing that the stuff they say has consequences". So a side-effect of communication with creators being easier is that creators can't wall themselves off in an ivory tower when they drop some kind of hot take.

A lesson my mother (who's an elementary school teacher) taught me is that if you say something that pisses people off, even if you're right, you still have to apologize for being an ass. 'because, y'know, you didn't have to say anything.

CrownKlown wrote:
I mean the whole Olympics thing is more on point, why should Japan apologize for/ or hide their sexual preferences to appease a few foreign countries? An extreme version is the Sony as a whole censoring or blocking games that don't follow US morals.


Merida's got a point, you're definitely conflating what you like to see with what is "acceptable" in Japan.

And besides, Japan has made massive waves for years about anime as a cultural export. You can't emphasize exporting your media to other countries and not expect to have to tailor it for foreign tastes to an extent.

Trendo wrote:

It has nothing to do with animes, japanese media is much more "open" with things like that. Did you ever watched some variety shows from japan? Did you ever read some books from japan like some with rape-content?
What about the fact that Mangaka like Ken Akamatsu etc. were against a new law in Tokyo, where some content should be banned?
And lets not forget the UN appeal in 2016 about the ban for Lolis, Sexual Violence etc. in media, which Japan rejected.
What is with their old depiction of Art (Women with tentacles) etc.
Of course its a part of their culture, otherwise it wouldnt make any sense why Japan rejected so many things from the western world and why so many Mangakas are against any changes.


I can say this as someone who's actually read Kensaburo Oe (i.e., stuff that's not an isekai light novel): you're pretty off-base here, bud.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3581
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:00 pm Reply with quote
Trendo wrote:
zrnzle500 wrote:
But how would you explain the later tweet(s) where he speaks about his use of those kind of scenes?

The important part is still this sentence "If it was an absolutely necessary scene for the story, I would write it, but I would prefer to do that in a book that isn't a light novel."
He would still write it if HE thinks its necessary for the story. He only said, because Lightnovels are most time for teenagers etc., such scenes are not suitable for young audience.
How lucky that books can be also made in anime.


I think the fact that he has moved to other means of expressing catharsis, and that he would only include that kind of scene if absolutely necessary, indicates that his previous use was not so necessary to the story and at the very least that he has since put more thought towards the inclusion of such scenes than "Well, the stories I read in middle school had them, so why not?"

@Jonny Mendes I think you and others are trying really hard to read around the possibility that a) Kawahara's approach to the topic of sexual assault in the past has not been well thought out or tastefully executed (some of the responsibility for the execution within the anime does lie with the anime's staff, as he alluded to when comparing the scene to the original) and b) that he acknowledges this and has changed his approach to writing accordingly.

Really I think some seem to dismiss the possibility that an author or artist can depict a sensitive topic or a group of people thoughtlessly (or worse), and that it is legitimate to criticize them for doing so, or that fans of a show would make such complaints. There also seems to be an almost fetishization of offensive content among some circles, as if the fact that some people are offended by it means that it is good or even true.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Echii



Joined: 17 May 2014
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:07 pm Reply with quote
I hate censorship

At least make one uncensored and one censored version and let people choose. I'm sure majority prefer uncensored.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group