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The Saga of Tanya the Evil Author Carlo Zen and English Translator Emily Balistrieri


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FlamingFirewire



Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 348
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:12 pm Reply with quote
I never realized that Isekai Quartet actually involved all of the original authors providing input for the respective series - kind of cool.
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Steve Minecraft



Joined: 13 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It is for this reason that Carlo Zen does not like the term “loli nazi,” which he has seen the English-speaking audience use to describe Tanya. “When I see the term, I think, 'Hmm, that's strange. How come they think so?' She's certainly not a hero, but she's not that kind of evil. Ultimately, she's a pragmatist.”


HItler was often described as a "pragmatist". Just sayin' dude.
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Zeino



Joined: 19 May 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
“On a gut level, I hate Nazis. It wouldn't do to write a story that shows Nazis doing cool things. If Nazis were in the story, it would make the question of which side is pure evil much more straightforward, but a story about a genocidal war would have to be handled with sensitivity. The Empire in this story is based on a what-if scenario where the German empire unified under the Großdeutsche Lösung ("Greater German solution"), so that all German-speaking peoples came together under one state. If peace had managed to continue throughout the 1910s and war broke out later, during the years between World War I and World War II, how would things be different? In that scenario, there wouldn't be any room for a demagogue like Hitler to come into power. ”


The German Empire was just viciously genocidal (look up the Herero and Namaqua genocide) and anti-semitic as it's Third Reich successor. The Nazis and their policies did not exist in vacuum. Often they were merely picking up where the Kaiser and his generals left off. So yeah, still not a tasteful idea, Zen.

But then I don't expected light-novel authors to be radical leftists with an understanding of history as it really is. [/quote]
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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 1019
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:19 pm Reply with quote
Don't worry Zen, at the very least I only call her "loli Nazi" or "loli Hitler" cause she's clearly a part of not-Germany in your story. I don't think she's evil at all just kinda an asshole. Still my favorite anime and character from 2017.
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omnistry



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 935
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:50 pm Reply with quote
Anyone notice how Saga of Tanya the Evil has the same plot device as Blackadder Goes Forth? A protagonist stuck battling World War I, and is trying to do everything they can to get out of the frontlines? Only difference is Blackadder's stupidity keeps him from getting away, whereas Tanya inadvertently makes too good of a plan to keep her from being moved to a desk job.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:22 pm Reply with quote
Let's leave out the trolling and insults, okay. Had to delete some posts. Also, we're not turning this thread into an argument about modern day politics either.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Quote:
It is for this reason that Carlo Zen does not like the term “loli nazi,” which he has seen the English-speaking audience use to describe Tanya. “When I see the term, I think, 'Hmm, that's strange. How come they think so?' She's certainly not a hero, but she's not that kind of evil. Ultimately, she's a pragmatist.”


HItler was often described as a "pragmatist". Just sayin' dude.


Some people have said that but, Hitler was not one, he constantly took decisions based entirely on his whims and megalomania.

His obsession with a super weapon like a really huge tank on which he wasted valuable resources, the stupid way he had his army organised so nobody could have the chance to take a decision without his approval, his disregard for the atomic bomb for being "Jewish Science", his refusal to move his army during Normandy so they wouldn't let the concentration camps unattended, attacking Stalingrad with half his forces instead of Moscow with full force and a long etc.

Tanya its all the opposite to him decision making-wise.
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12skippy21



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
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Location: York, England
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:35 am Reply with quote
omnistry wrote:
Anyone notice how Saga of Tanya the Evil has the same plot device as Blackadder Goes Forth? A protagonist stuck battling World War I, and is trying to do everything they can to get out of the frontlines? Only difference is Blackadder's stupidity keeps him from getting away, whereas Tanya inadvertently makes too good of a plan to keep her from being moved to a desk job.


I can totally see that Laughing

Rudersdorf as Melchett is also uncanny though who would be Tanya's Baldrick? Her squad are too competent.
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Aki_Leaves



Joined: 05 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:40 am Reply with quote
Zeino wrote:
Quote:
“On a gut level, I hate Nazis. It wouldn't do to write a story that shows Nazis doing cool things. If Nazis were in the story, it would make the question of which side is pure evil much more straightforward, but a story about a genocidal war would have to be handled with sensitivity. The Empire in this story is based on a what-if scenario where the German empire unified under the Großdeutsche Lösung ("Greater German solution"), so that all German-speaking peoples came together under one state. If peace had managed to continue throughout the 1910s and war broke out later, during the years between World War I and World War II, how would things be different? In that scenario, there wouldn't be any room for a demagogue like Hitler to come into power. ”


The German Empire was just viciously genocidal (look up the Herero and Namaqua genocide) and anti-semitic as it's Third Reich successor. The Nazis and their policies did not exist in vacuum. Often they were merely picking up where the Kaiser and his generals left off. So yeah, still not a tasteful idea, Zen.

But then I don't expected light-novel authors to be radical leftists with an understanding of history as it really is.
[/quote]

I don't get it. Do you find the whole "Saga of Tanya the Evil" series distasteful because the protagonist is on the "evil" side that represents real world WWI era Germany? Are you against any series with "villainous" protagonists?

If you have read the light novels, you would know that the Empire is NOT portaryed sympathetically at all. The whole world hates them and the reader isn't supposed to see them as good guys. Tanya is a sociopath who happened to get placed in this country. She was placed in the villainous nation the whole world would hate specifically so she would be the enemy of everyone and have her limits tested.

Tanya would be the same person trying to get ahead regardless of nation, but it's the fact she's in the empire that makes the series intriguing.

I get that you find WWI Germany distateful (as do I and most civilized people) but it really seems like you're having a knee jerk reaction for political reasons and writing the series off based on assumptions you made.
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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:37 am Reply with quote
Aki_Leaves wrote:

I don't get it. Do you find the whole "Saga of Tanya the Evil" series distasteful because the protagonist is on the "evil" side that represents real world WWI era Germany? Are you against any series with "villainous" protagonists?

If you have read the light novels, you would know that the Empire is NOT portaryed sympathetically at all. The whole world hates them and the reader isn't supposed to see them as good guys. Tanya is a sociopath who happened to get placed in this country. She was placed in the villainous nation the whole world would hate specifically so she would be the enemy of everyone and have her limits tested.

Tanya would be the same person trying to get ahead regardless of nation, but it's the fact she's in the empire that makes the series intriguing.

I get that you find WWI Germany distateful (as do I and most civilized people) but it really seems like you're having a knee jerk reaction for political reasons and writing the series off based on assumptions you made.


While I don't think we are suppose to see the empire as good guys we definently aren't supposed to hate them. Remember that they are the defenders in this story with everyone trying to invade them for either selfish reasons or paranoia of them growing too strong.
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Morry



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:45 am Reply with quote
ultimatehaki wrote:

While I don't think we are suppose to see the empire as good guys we definently aren't supposed to hate them. Remember that they are the defenders in this story with everyone trying to invade them for either selfish reasons or paranoia of them growing too strong.


So... legitimate socio-economic or national reasons? Even today countries group up to economically or militarily intimidate/contain larger geo-poliitcal threats in their hemisphere.

You can like the bad guys while considering them morally reprehensible or at least stupid, and you can dislike the good guys despite them taking the correct course of action in opposing the bad guys. That's the nuance of WWI, which the author clearly wants to convey to an audience largely ignorant of the war and its importance globally.
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Panino Manino



Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:05 am Reply with quote
Steve Minecraft wrote:
Quote:
It is for this reason that Carlo Zen does not like the term “loli nazi,” which he has seen the English-speaking audience use to describe Tanya. “When I see the term, I think, 'Hmm, that's strange. How come they think so?' She's certainly not a hero, but she's not that kind of evil. Ultimately, she's a pragmatist.”


HItler was often described as a "pragmatist". Just sayin' dude.


I think I get his point.
You see, the character Tanya in his "original form and world" was already a shitty person. But what can a shitty person do without power? Hitler did those things because he acquired power. His followers did those things because they had power to do so.
So, if Tanya didn't had died and sent to that world, what could she do? Would she kill someone? Would she had a reason to try to kill someone?
I think I get his point, that that's not what I came here to write.

Isn't that world and war based on The Great War?
Meaning BEFORE the nazis?
I don't think it's correct to call then nazis when they didn't even existed. They may be similar, fascists, but call them by a "proper" name.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:19 pm Reply with quote
World War I Germany is a completely different animal than World War II Germany.

At it's core, WWI was a political disaster of interlocking mutual defense treaties, set off by a political assassination. There were no good or bad guys in this war.

I merely view Tanya as a survivor. If you are not playing to win, you are going to lose, and if you lose in war, you are going to pay the price.

I am so invested with Tanya as the main character, I will finish the light novels to the end.
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omnistry



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 935
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:12 pm Reply with quote
12skippy21 wrote:
omnistry wrote:
Anyone notice how Saga of Tanya the Evil has the same plot device as Blackadder Goes Forth? A protagonist stuck battling World War I, and is trying to do everything they can to get out of the frontlines? Only difference is Blackadder's stupidity keeps him from getting away, whereas Tanya inadvertently makes too good of a plan to keep her from being moved to a desk job.


I can totally see that Laughing

Rudersdorf as Melchett is also uncanny though who would be Tanya's Baldrick? Her squad are too competent.


After watching the beach episode of Isekai Quartet, I'm sure a couple of the male soldiers fit well into the Baldrick category.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 199
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada wrote:
Some people have said that but, Hitler was not one, he constantly took decisions based entirely on his whims and megalomania.


To be fair it's hard to find anyone who isn't at least partially pragmatic. If you define pragmatism as "being guided more by practicality than by ideology" then it would at least partially fit him in some areas. He made numerous compromises from his ideals for the sake of short term and long term benefits during his reign. He spared and allied with some Jewish people because their aide and allegiance were more beneficial to him then his goal of genocide. He allied with non-Nordic people like the Hungarians, Chinese, Japanese, Italians, and Arabs because he saw the value in their strength despite them not adhering to his Aryan master race ideology, going so far as to dub them "honorary Aryans" in some instances.
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