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The List - Get to Know Seven of Evangelion's Angels




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chronos02



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:53 pm Reply with quote
As much as I love to see NGE articles or content in general, this list is -kind of- wrong.

Lilith is -not- an Angel, nor is Adam. Both of them are carriers of the seeds, Adam is the carrier of the seed of life, while Lilith is the carrier of the seed of knowledge, both of them are the primogenitors of their respective families.

Adam fathered the "Angels", while Lilith gave birth to Lilim.

If we take into account what Nerv considers to be an Angel, only the descendants of Adam are Angels, Gendo and Fuyuki consider everything safe for Adam and Lilith to be an Angel, including "humans", while SEELE believes all of them are angels. In the plot, however, an Angel is, for most of the series, the sons of Adam. Even then, the underlying plot tells us that the term Angel is wrong, all of them are humans, so the right way to differentiate them is by splitting them by the seed they carry: Adam and its descendants carry the seed of life, and can live eternally, while Lilim carries the seed of knowledge and goes through a cycle of reincarnation. Also, both Adam and Lilith are actually the amalgamation of souls made vessels and controlled by a single individual, with the objective of carrying the inhabitants of "???" to other inhabitable worlds throughout space. The main plot in the series is the conflict between the descendants of Adam and Lilith trying to claim earth as their home world, when they, Lilim, were supposed to have been sent to a different place.

The general consensus is that an Angel is whatever comes from Adam, everything else is not. The official enumeration (which SEELE uses) considers that Adam is the 1st, while Lilith is the 2nd though, but that's wrong as the plot later tells (the official enumeration uses it this way since it's easier for staff members to know what they are talking about).
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:59 pm Reply with quote
You do realize this is just a fun little article and nothing serious right?
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zawa113
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7154
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:14 pm Reply with quote
*Immediately checks Shin Megami Tensei demons list*

Sachiel- no show directly, but if you just count "Archangels", they've been in basically every single game since the first Shin Megami Tensei

Shamshel-one game, Giten Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushiroku (Japan Only, NEC-PC, 1997) (Divine Race)

Ramiel (as Remiel)-yes, lots of games, including Shin Megami Tensei if, and Devil Survivor 1 and 2 (Herald Race/Divine Race). Also in the Devil Kids Light & Dark anime

Israfel-yes, lots of games including Strange Journey, Soul Hackers, and IV/IV Apocalypse (Herald Race)

Sandalphon-yes, lots of games including Persona 3, 4, 5, Q1 (Ultimate Persona for Moon Arcana), Strange Journey, Soul Hackers (Herald Race), and Raidou Kuzunoha

Tabris-no show

Lilith-yes, Shin Megami Tensei III, IV (Night Race), Persona 3, 4, 5, Q1, Q2 (Devil/Moon Arcana), Raidou Kuzunoha, Devil Survivor 2
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2098
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
You do realize this is just a fun little article and nothing serious right?

And you realize that this is a post/article about Evangelion on the internet, right?
What did you expect?
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:58 pm Reply with quote
As much as I didn't care for a lot of other elements of evangelion's story I got to say the angels were really cool.
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scrwbll19



Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:17 am Reply with quote
I will just say that most of the elements presented in the article are more Jewish than Christian, so the opening paragraph is rather misleading and inaccurate. Also, while the main body is more or less correct, it would be helpful to give sources for which texts are being referenced. Lastly, while this is meant to be a fun article, fun does not mean that one should overly simplify things like referring to Christianity as a fanfic, which is a little insulting and insensitive to Christians. Likewise, referring to these things as "pseudo-occult babble" is more than a little insensitive and is just downright rude. It is this kind of tone and language that betrays either an ignorance on the writer's part or a reflection of their personal problems with Christianity on the whole or a combination of both. Although I am not a Christian, I still find this kind of speech to be offensive because of its condescending tone.
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Arale Kurashiki



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 560
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:29 am Reply with quote
^ lol

Also I think it's fair to call things besides the sons of Adam Angels, but that's just my view of the series. "Angel" ultimately refers to any greater "life form", with most of them being singular but the Lilim being split apart. While "human" refers to a singular life form, which can also be any of the angels, but also individual lilims, as well as clones like the Evas or Rei etc. Since you don't really find out about what Adam and Lilith actually are until late in the series, I'd say that them and the Lilim counting as angels is the thing that is later revealed, not disproven.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 4347
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:37 am Reply with quote
I have to agree chronos02. When I see a list about EVA, I expect it to be accurate and serious.

Aside from that though, good list

Slightly related, I'm curious if Netflix fixed the issues that were present in even the latest Blu-ray releases. I remember the color was very wrong in certain scenes. Some of it just being completely wrong, others having bad black crush. I'd be amazed and happily surprised if they did fix anything at all.
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 am Reply with quote
scrwbll19 wrote:
Lastly, while this is meant to be a fun article, fun does not mean that one should overly simplify things like referring to Christianity as a fanfic, which is a little insulting and insensitive to Christians. Likewise, referring to these things as "pseudo-occult babble" is more than a little insensitive and is just downright rude.


Although I genuinely appreciate your speaking out against insults to a religion not your own, there has been a misunderstanding:

Quote:
If you look at Christianity as a sort of fandom, we can call The Bible "canon." However, there's a lot of really, really old "fanfiction" (apocrypha) that didn't make the cut into the True Word. This includes angelology (and demonology) that lays out hierarchies of Heaven and Hell. Medieval writers loved this shit and the ideas extend into a lot of pop culture today...


The author is referring to the Apocrypha and historical occult books as fanfiction, not Christianity. And this is a perfect analogy; I would also refer to Paradise Lost and Dante's Inferno as fanfic. In fact a lot of their "fanon" has become more popular and better known the canon (e.g. Lucifer being a fallen angel equivocated with Satan instead of a title for King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, hell being a place you go to and are tortured by demons in after you die, etc.)

Quote:
The fascination with classifying celestial beings also means it's difficult to whittle down what's historical and what's yet another book of pseudo-occult babble muddying the waters...


There is nothing insulting about saying it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. Because of the popularity of... well, pop culture, like, once again, Paradise Lost and even more modern stuff like Supernatural, it can take a bit of digging to find out the true origin for a 2000+ year-old personage. This kind of thing is why there's so many different stories of just which angel guarded the gates of Eden, the canonic Judeo-Christian Bible does not name the cherubim but other writings say it was Uriel rather than Eden. I believe I've also heard Michael named as well.

The author was not condescending at all, nor are they ignorant. As someone who has studied this stuff for the love of theology and mythology (and I say this as a Christian), I can confirm they definitely did their homework.

It's true that technically Lillith and Adam are not basically just alien carriers and that only the spawn of Adam are angels but other than that, bravo, Lynzee. This article is years overdue. I wish I had sat down and done it myself.
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Stampeed Valkyrie



Joined: 10 Aug 2014
Posts: 512
Location: PA
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:53 pm Reply with quote
Eva, is quite the rabbit hole.

Just when you think you have it pretty nailed down, someone comes along and knocks everything over.

I've rewatched the series more times then I can count and I still find things worth of interest that get me back into it.
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megazero



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 263
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:39 pm Reply with quote
This is actually a nice guide for us to know more about the angels of Evangelion.
Thumbs up!
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