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EP. REVIEW: Irregular at Magic High School: Visitor Arc


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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 222
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:10 pm Reply with quote
You know, the problem I had with the first anime was not that the MC was OP, but the constant verbal beating other characters (and himself) applied to him.

We couldn't go 5 mins without the MC or somebody else remembering us how useless and weak he was.... meanwhile he is a super handsome magical ninja engineer millionaire gunslinger detective and member of the student council with women coming out of his ears who fall for him for no actual reason besides how super special he is.

This disconnection between what we are told and what we are shown pissed me off a lot.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:02 pm Reply with quote
The statement, that he doesn't care about his friends and only uses them is blatantly false. He does care about him and he doesn't use them. Hell you see this pretty obviously in this episode alone, the only reason he starts making a move on the parasites is because his friend Leo gets hurt and makes it point for Shizuku to keep herself safe since there is a similar situation happening in America. I don't know who told you this or where you got that assertion from, but it's wrong.

Miyuki is indeed the most important to him and he can only feel his strongest emotions in regards to her, but his emotions and relationships towards his friends aren't fake.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:38 pm Reply with quote
T.Silver wrote:
The statement, that he doesn't care about his friends and only uses them is blatantly false. He does care about him and he doesn't use them. Hell you see this pretty obviously in this episode alone, the only reason he starts making a move on the parasites is because his friend Leo gets hurt and makes it point for Shizuku to keep herself safe since there is a similar situation happening in America. I don't know who told you this or where you got that assertion from, but it's wrong.

Miyuki is indeed the most important to him and he can only feel his strongest emotions in regards to her, but his emotions and relationships towards his friends aren't fake.


Thats more or less what I came in to say as well. He can't feel EXTREME emotions. He feels and understands emotions, he just doesnt get really anything. I think he likes his friends; Some of them became Miyukis friends because they were friends with HIM first. He does a lot of things he doesn't have to do for the people he likes, and you see that at many points throughout the seasons. He isnt emotionless, just emotionally muted.

I actually really dig the series. I (Like the reviewer) re-watched the show a few weeks back to catch up and remember what was happening, and I remember now why I liked it so much the first time.
Yes Tatsuya is extremely powerful, but he isnt omnipotent and he can't do it all on his own. He needs and uses help from multiple people and multiple times. He is frustrated with his own lack of power and speed which make him have to rely on others to do things for him. I mean he's insanely strong, but not unbeatable. I think his only power that I find ridiculous is the way he can reset himself to full health whenever he likes; thats one of the few powers in the show i dont understand the mechanics of.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:16 pm Reply with quote
The Scream Man wrote:
T.Silver wrote:
The statement, that he doesn't care about his friends and only uses them is blatantly false. He does care about him and he doesn't use them. Hell you see this pretty obviously in this episode alone, the only reason he starts making a move on the parasites is because his friend Leo gets hurt and makes it point for Shizuku to keep herself safe since there is a similar situation happening in America. I don't know who told you this or where you got that assertion from, but it's wrong.

Miyuki is indeed the most important to him and he can only feel his strongest emotions in regards to her, but his emotions and relationships towards his friends aren't fake.


Thats more or less what I came in to say as well. He can't feel EXTREME emotions. He feels and understands emotions, he just doesnt get really anything. I think he likes his friends; Some of them became Miyukis friends because they were friends with HIM first. He does a lot of things he doesn't have to do for the people he likes, and you see that at many points throughout the seasons. He isnt emotionless, just emotionally muted.
I think the reviewer took the moment where Tatsuya told Miyuki about how the feelings he feels toward her are his only genuine ones(I'm paraphrasing here) during the NSC arc to literally. He say's that because the emotions he feels for Miyuki make him feel the most human, cause they are the strongest emotions he possesses, but that doesn't mean he see's his other emotions or relationships as fake. Its also important to note, Tatsuya doesn't exactly understand his own self very well. So he may view himself as inhumane at times, but his actions and emotions can contradict that. Hell in this arc, Miyuki even points this out spoiler[Tatsuya is trying to wrap his head on why he's being hesitant and indecisive with his actions with dealing with Lina and the parasite threat, Miyuki points out that he couldn't forgive himself for Leo getting hurt(likely because Tatsuya thought if he acted sooner he may have prevented that(not directly said, but its implied) and that he didn't want to hurt Lina, because despite their short time together they still became friends, and Miyuki was truely happy he felt so strongly for others besides herself.]I just hope the adaption doesn't skip that moment. Also one could argue Tatsuya is closer to everyone in their friend circle than Miyuki is.
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thedarkemissary



Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:58 pm Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada wrote:
You know, the problem I had with the first anime was not that the MC was OP, but the constant verbal beating other characters (and himself) applied to him.

We couldn't go 5 mins without the MC or somebody else remembering us how useless and weak he was.... meanwhile he is a super handsome magical ninja engineer millionaire gunslinger detective and member of the student council with women coming out of his ears who fall for him for no actual reason besides how super special he is.

This disconnection between what we are told and what we are shown pissed me off a lot.


Then you weren't really paying attention. The "disconnect" was the whole point of the first arc. That, despite his abilities as a 'magical engineer detective," his value, as it was seen by both the academic standard and ruling government body was below average, simply because of his limited base output (explained by story reasons later).

And so the entire first cour deliberately introduced characters, who shared both a more open mindset and willingness to accept, as a minority of a younger generation of that larger system of evaluating magicians's role in society. Compounded by the fact that he himself is a genetically engineered illegal government human test subject to create super soldiers for the purposes of national military strength.

For instance, imagine a story where the world is constantly telling the MC he can't play volleyball cause he's short, or telling the MC he can't cook cause he was never classically trained, or he'll never be a great ninja cause he sucks.

And only 3 girls of like 15, actually have romantic feelings for him. I don't get where people are constantly getting the "women coming out of his ears" or the equivalent, when criticizing this series. Goes to show, a lot of people build an opinion without actually knowing anything.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 222
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:00 am Reply with quote
thedarkemissary wrote:
Minos_Kurumada wrote:
You know, the problem I had with the first anime was not that the MC was OP, but the constant verbal beating other characters (and himself) applied to him.

We couldn't go 5 mins without the MC or somebody else remembering us how useless and weak he was.... meanwhile he is a super handsome magical ninja engineer millionaire gunslinger detective and member of the student council with women coming out of his ears who fall for him for no actual reason besides how super special he is.

This disconnection between what we are told and what we are shown pissed me off a lot.


Then you weren't really paying attention. The "disconnect" was the whole point of the first arc. That, despite his abilities as a 'magical engineer detective," his value, as it was seen by both the academic standard and ruling government body was below average, simply because of his limited base output (explained by story reasons later).

And so the entire first cour deliberately introduced characters, who shared both a more open mindset and willingness to accept, as a minority of a younger generation of that larger system of evaluating magicians's role in society. Compounded by the fact that he himself is a genetically engineered illegal government human test subject to create super soldiers for the purposes of national military strength.

For instance, imagine a story where the world is constantly telling the MC he can't play volleyball cause he's short, or telling the MC he can't cook cause he was never classically trained, or he'll never be a great ninja cause he sucks.

And only 3 girls of like 15, actually have romantic feelings for him. I don't get where people are constantly getting the "women coming out of his ears" or the equivalent, when criticizing this series. Goes to show, a lot of people build an opinion without actually knowing anything.


You need to be dead to not notice that, the show was literally beating your head constantly with that point, not just the MC but the other characters of leser families were also in the same park, like the girl that was useless but was very good at kendo, enough to defeat the other girl who was form a superior family and the other guy with the voice activated arm.

Which it's born from the real problem the show has: it refuses to properly explain anything. The anime never takes 5 mins to explain the families nor the chaste system nor what are the technology they use to simplify the use of magic, you had to go and read the webpage for that.

If you pick the Manga it explains you a lot the anime refuses to explain in the first 10 pages, but I found that out after watching the thing, which is why I only mentioned the show and it's problem.

And I am pretty sure I counted 4 girls with feelings for him, one of them was the "Evil" kendo girl but gave up on him, I think it was because he was too cool for her so she decided to date the other kendo guy...?

Anyways, 4-3 girls in an anime do counts as a lot in my book, I am allergic to harem plots, specially if one of them is his sister.
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AholePony



Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 318
Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:27 am Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada wrote:
Which it's born from the real problem the show has: it refuses to properly explain anything. The anime never takes 5 mins to explain the families nor the chaste system nor what are the technology they use to simplify the use of magic, you had to go and read the webpage for that.

If you pick the Manga it explains you a lot the anime refuses to explain in the first 10 pages, but I found that out after watching the thing, which is why I only mentioned the show and it's problem.


This I agree with wholeheartedly, I had a friend that read the LNs spoil some of the lore within the first few episodes of the original series airing, things like what Tatsuya's family did to him, how his emotions work, and how their society had reverted back to almost victorian era ideals for attire and why. I enjoyed the first season quite a bit and subsequently told any friends these small world building nuggets prior to their viewings and they all also enjoyed the show. Most had trepidations due to how much hate the series seems to get and I attribute it to the show catering too much to the LN readers.


As to the other topic on hand about Tatsuya only using everyone... He went on a murder spree more than once in the original series simply because his classmates were injured or endangered. They went out of their way to show how much he cares so I agree Richard had an odd take on this one.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:21 pm Reply with quote
AholePony wrote:
As to the other topic on hand about Tatsuya only using everyone... He went on a murder spree more than once in the original series simply because his classmates were injured or endangered. They went out of their way to show how much he cares so I agree Richard had an odd take on this one.
Tbf the reason he killed them all was because they targeted Miyuki, if they didn't he would have probably left most of them alive to be arrested by other members of his unit.

Still there's enough evidence in that arc that shown he cared for his friends and such. Just look at the moment when Mari got hurt, her life wasn't in danger and the paramedics could of handled the situation, yet he rushed in and carried her over to the hospital and gave the doctors the diagnosis so they could properly treat her. Or how much he did for the girls he was in charge of, he went above and beyond to make sure they could preform at their best and watched over them all carefully in order to prevent them from getting sabotaged. And speaking of the sabotage, he was the one who led the investigation for it, if he was really only focused on keeping Miyuki safe he didn't have to go that far, which goes to show he also wanted to prevent his friends and classmates from falling victim as well. Now to my last example, the plot with his friend Mikihiko. The guy was going through a rut, he was once a prodigy, but after an accident he fell off and just couldn't get back to who he use to be. Then once again, here comes Tatsuya helping Mikihiko overcome these mental barriers by giving him advice and letting compete with him on the big stage to prove his worth and instill in him the confidence he once had. Hell by year 2, spoiler[Mikihiko improved so much, they advanced him up to course 1.]

With all that being said, Tatsuya would have never done all that if he truly only cared about Miyuki and absolutely no one else. Tatsuya is a complicated individual and the anime drops the ball with showing his depth as a character, but i feel even with that being the case it didn't go as far as showing him to being a completely uncaring monster when Miyuki isn't involved.
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Richard Eisenbeis



Joined: 17 Dec 2018
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:43 pm Reply with quote
T.Silver wrote:
AholePony wrote:
As to the other topic on hand about Tatsuya only using everyone... He went on a murder spree more than once in the original series simply because his classmates were injured or endangered. They went out of their way to show how much he cares so I agree Richard had an odd take on this one.
Tbf the reason he killed them all was because they targeted Miyuki, if they didn't he would have probably left most of them alive to be arrested by other members of his unit.

Still there's enough evidence in that arc that shown he cared for his friends and such. Just look at the moment when Mari got hurt, her life wasn't in danger and the paramedics could of handled the situation, yet he rushed in and carried her over to the hospital and gave the doctors the diagnosis so they could properly treat her. Or how much he did for the girls he was in charge of, he went above and beyond to make sure they could preform at their best and watched over them all carefully in order to prevent them from getting sabotaged. And speaking of the sabotage, he was the one who led the investigation for it, if he was really only focused on keeping Miyuki safe he didn't have to go that far, which goes to show he also wanted to prevent his friends and classmates from falling victim as well. Now to my last example, the plot with his friend Mikihiko. The guy was going through a rut, he was once a prodigy, but after an accident he fell off and just couldn't get back to who he use to be. Then once again, here comes Tatsuya helping Mikihiko overcome these mental barriers by giving him advice and letting compete with him on the big stage to prove his worth and instill in him the confidence he once had. Hell by year 2, spoiler[Mikihiko improved so much, they advanced him up to course 1.]

With all that being said, Tatsuya would have never done all that if he truly only cared about Miyuki and absolutely no one else. Tatsuya is a complicated individual and the anime drops the ball with showing his depth as a character, but i feel even with that being the case it didn't go as far as showing him to being a completely uncaring monster when Miyuki isn't involved.


To be clear, I'm not saying anyone's interpretation of Tatsuya is "wrong" and I'll be the first to admit that my take on Tatsuya rather extreme. However, it is the way the anime has described it several times. He only feels emotions for Miyuki and no one else--not even himself. Therefore, the way I see it, all the "nice" things he done so far are calculated and logical.

His most general goal is to make Miyuki safe and happy. Therefore I tend to see all his actions through that lens.

He helps other people because:
A) these people will be useful to him (and Miyuki) either in school or in the future
B) it's better in general to make friends than enemies
C) they can give him a perspective or information he can't get on his own
D) if he didn't, Miyuki would be sad--doubly so if her friends were injured or killed.

Tatsuya is always thinking both long term and short term about Miyuki and how to protect/support her. And when bad things start happening around Miyuki, he treats it as if she could be next.

(Of course, his characterization in the novels may be different. I haven't read them. I can only go by what I have seen on the screen and what the anime has flat out told me.)
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:02 pm Reply with quote
Richard Eisenbeis wrote:
T.Silver wrote:
AholePony wrote:
As to the other topic on hand about Tatsuya only using everyone... He went on a murder spree more than once in the original series simply because his classmates were injured or endangered. They went out of their way to show how much he cares so I agree Richard had an odd take on this one.
Tbf the reason he killed them all was because they targeted Miyuki, if they didn't he would have probably left most of them alive to be arrested by other members of his unit.

Still there's enough evidence in that arc that shown he cared for his friends and such. Just look at the moment when Mari got hurt, her life wasn't in danger and the paramedics could of handled the situation, yet he rushed in and carried her over to the hospital and gave the doctors the diagnosis so they could properly treat her. Or how much he did for the girls he was in charge of, he went above and beyond to make sure they could preform at their best and watched over them all carefully in order to prevent them from getting sabotaged. And speaking of the sabotage, he was the one who led the investigation for it, if he was really only focused on keeping Miyuki safe he didn't have to go that far, which goes to show he also wanted to prevent his friends and classmates from falling victim as well. Now to my last example, the plot with his friend Mikihiko. The guy was going through a rut, he was once a prodigy, but after an accident he fell off and just couldn't get back to who he use to be. Then once again, here comes Tatsuya helping Mikihiko overcome these mental barriers by giving him advice and letting compete with him on the big stage to prove his worth and instill in him the confidence he once had. Hell by year 2, spoiler[Mikihiko improved so much, they advanced him up to course 1.]

With all that being said, Tatsuya would have never done all that if he truly only cared about Miyuki and absolutely no one else. Tatsuya is a complicated individual and the anime drops the ball with showing his depth as a character, but i feel even with that being the case it didn't go as far as showing him to being a completely uncaring monster when Miyuki isn't involved.


To be clear, I'm not saying anyone's interpretation of Tatsuya is "wrong" and I'll be the first to admit that my take on Tatsuya rather extreme. However, it is the way the anime has described it several times. He only feels emotions for Miyuki and no one else--not even himself. Therefore, the way I see it, all the "nice" things he done so far are calculated and logical.

His most general goal is to make Miyuki safe and happy. Therefore I tend to see all his actions through that lens.

He helps other people because:
A) these people will be useful to him (and Miyuki) either in school or in the future
B) it's better in general to make friends than enemies
C) they can give him a perspective or information he can't get on his own
D) if he didn't, Miyuki would be sad--doubly so if her friends were injured or killed.

Tatsuya is always thinking both long term and short term about Miyuki and how to protect/support her. And when bad things start happening around Miyuki, he treats it as if she could be next.

(Of course, his characterization in the novels may be different. I haven't read them. I can only go by what I have seen on the screen and what the anime has flat out told me.)
Well the assessments of Tatsuya making his decisions and taking action primarily through logic and Miyuki's well-being/happiness is his top priority are pretty on the mark, but its a bit more complicated than that. In the anime it does basically say he only has emotions for Miyuki, but its best to not take that to literally. In reality he has other emotions, but they're just not as nearly as strong as the ones he has for her. Look at it this way, if he didn't have any other emotions, he wouldn't have his own likes(such as magic engineering), dislikes(such as being in the spot light), and having his own personal goals(creating a magic operated thermal nuclear reactor).

I'm assuming you've seen the movie, but ill tag it just in case. spoiler[Remember that scene where the group is deciding to help Kokoa rescue her sisters? Everyone gave their input, except for Tatsuya. He took a moment, closed his, and we were given a flashback of a dying woman with a young Tatsuya by her side. And then opened up his eyes and agreed to help her. You see that woman was very important to him and those girls reminded him of her and shortly after their discussion he and Miyuki are sitting outside alone together, and he basically apologizes to her for making such a decision based on his own feelings.]That a pretty big example that you might have overlooked.

I will say for the most part Tatsuya can be a pretty indifferent individual and is capable of making cold hard decisions, there's no denying that. But he does genuinely care for his friends spoiler[and a few of his family members, that haven't shown themselves yet]. The Vistors Arc does show a lot of evidence of Tatsuya being genuinely kind and caring towards others aside from Miyuki, so hopefully if the adaption doesn't cut to many corners you can see more of it for yourself.

Anyways thank you for the reply. I was honestly surprised cause most reviewers I've ran into tend to ignore comments(especially ones with criticism). So I'm glad your willing to at least here us out.
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Alan45
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Joined: 25 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:11 am Reply with quote
Richard Eisenbeis wrote:
Quote:
To be clear, I'm not saying anyone's interpretation of Tatsuya is "wrong" and I'll be the first to admit that my take on Tatsuya rather extreme. However, it is the way the anime has described it several times. He only feels emotions for Miyuki and no one else--not even himself. Therefore, the way I see it, all the "nice" things he done so far are calculated and logical.


It is not at all unusual for a work to describe a character's personality in a specific manner and then subvert that description by the character's actions. This is especially true when the character is described as "logical" and "cold". Also the lack of emotions is mostly Tatsuya's self assessment. Such self assessment is frequently wrong even in real life. Like most people he is willing to defend anything that he thinks is his. His friends, his school, his country, he will not summarily abandon these just because he does not see benefit for Miyuki. Yes he will defend Miyuki above all others but she is not the sum total of his life. What he does lack is not emotions but passion except for Miyuki.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 136
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:36 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
Richard Eisenbeis wrote:
Quote:
To be clear, I'm not saying anyone's interpretation of Tatsuya is "wrong" and I'll be the first to admit that my take on Tatsuya rather extreme. However, it is the way the anime has described it several times. He only feels emotions for Miyuki and no one else--not even himself. Therefore, the way I see it, all the "nice" things he done so far are calculated and logical.


It is not at all unusual for a work to describe a character's personality in a specific manner and then subvert that description by the character's actions. This is especially true when the character is described as "logical" and "cold". Also the lack of emotions is mostly Tatsuya's self assessment. Such self assessment is frequently wrong even in real life. Like most people he is willing to defend anything that he thinks is his. His friends, his school, his country, he will not summarily abandon these just because he does not see benefit for Miyuki. Yes he will defend Miyuki above all others but she is not the sum total of his life. What he does lack is not emotions but passion except for Miyuki.
Agree with everything you said, except his lack of passion outside of protecting Miyuki. Because he is pretty passionate with his work as a magical engineer. Tatsuya's been described as a tech junkie and finds anything science, magic, or tech related interesting. Then there is his goal of perfecting the stellar furnace and improving the livelihood of Magicians everywhere should also be noted(though a decent chunk of his reasoning for that goes back to Miyuki, but still shows his passion for magic engineering and to improve the quality of life for his own people as well).
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:58 pm Reply with quote
@T.Silver

I can't argue with that. He seems to spend all of his spare time on tech matters. I was thinking about his reactions to others and not his other activities. My take is that his emotions are not so much missing as muted.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
@T.Silver

I can't argue with that. He seems to spend all of his spare time on tech matters. I was thinking about his reactions to others and not his other activities. My take is that his emotions are not so much missing as muted.
Yep, they're there, he just can't express them strongly generally. His mother Miya gave us a more accurate way to describe it in vol 8spoiler[basically she says its not the emotions that were erased, but the strong urges that encompass them.].
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Richard Eisenbeis



Joined: 17 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:43 pm Reply with quote
T.Silver wrote:

I'm assuming you've seen the movie, but ill tag it just in case. spoiler[Remember that scene where the group is deciding to help Kokoa rescue her sisters? Everyone gave their input, except for Tatsuya. He took a moment, closed his, and we were given a flashback of a dying woman with a young Tatsuya by her side. And then opened up his eyes and agreed to help her. You see that woman was very important to him and those girls reminded him of her and shortly after their discussion he and Miyuki are sitting outside alone together, and he basically apologizes to her for making such a decision based on his own feelings.]That a pretty big example that you might have overlooked.

I will say for the most part Tatsuya can be a pretty indifferent individual and is capable of making cold hard decisions, there's no denying that. But he does genuinely care for his friends spoiler[and a few of his family members, that haven't shown themselves yet]. The Vistors Arc does show a lot of evidence of Tatsuya being genuinely kind and caring towards others aside from Miyuki, so hopefully if the adaption doesn't cut to many corners you can see more of it for yourself.


Nothing would make me happier than some serious character development for Tatsuya in the Visitor Arc. In season one, he seems to be, by his very nature, unable to grow or change emotionally. Proving this to be false would go a long way to making him an interesting character in my eyes.

Side note: You know, I had forgotten about that little flash in the movie (because I didn't and still don't have any idea of the context). The problem is that as the movie takes place after this arc, I can't be sure how it fits in with the mindset of the Tatsuya in season 2. Heck, I can't even be sure if it is an exception to his Miyuki-centric worldview (well, yet anyway). It'd be nice if season 2 dramatically changes how I view the movie.
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