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Thank you so much everyone for reading! And to Anime News Network for publishing the piece.

I hope that everyone learned a little something about the fascinating and ever-changing history of yuri, or if nothing else, maybe has a new Yuri series to check out!

As nice as the core idea here is, I think it speaks more about the writer's own exposure to yuri, or rather, the kind of yuri they came across. I read yuri about adult lesbians having workplace romances and explicit threesomes spiced with poppers and whatnot in the early '90s in a magazine that had a bunch of this sort of manga. And no, before anyone asks, it wasn't male-targeted lesbian porn, it was a magazine targeting women, specifically lesbian/bisexual/curious women in fact. So it's really not like "yuri used to be schoolgirls pining then it came into its own" - it's more like "yuri was doing its own thing but it was always too niche for its own good, and then the schoolgirls pining thing became popular with the male demographic so that became the norm, until it was more or less reclaimed by its original intended target demo: women."

SHD wrote:

As nice as the core idea here is, I think it speaks more about the writer's own exposure to yuri, or rather, the kind of yuri they came across. I read yuri about adult lesbians having workplace romances and explicit threesomes spiced with poppers and whatnot in the early '90s in a magazine that had a bunch of this sort of manga. And no, before anyone asks, it wasn't male-targeted lesbian porn, it was a magazine targeting women, specifically lesbian/bisexual/curious women in fact. So it's really not like "yuri used to be schoolgirls pining then it came into its own" - it's more like "yuri was doing its own thing but it was always too niche for its own good, and then the schoolgirls pining thing became popular with the male demographic so that became the norm, until it was more or less reclaimed by its original intended target demo: women."

Of course, Yuri between adults existed before 2017, Mist, Phyrne, and Anise were doing it back in the 80s and 90s. However, it was never dominant in the genre, except arguably in a brief period during the Yuri "dark age" of the 80s when there, frankly, was not much Yuri content. In the periods when we did have enough Yuri and research into the market to tell what was popular (namely, the '20s, '70s, late '90, early 2000s) we see schoolgirl stories always on top. Heck, the first Yuri work and the first Yuri manga were both S pieces. The only time we see a sizable and trackable portion of the market change outside of school was the mid-to-late 2010s

As for school-targetted Yuri only rising because of men, I think that is an oversimplification. Let's not forget that the work which brought about the S-revival in the early 2000s, Marimite, was female targetted, and while, as often happens with Yuri, it found a sizable home among the greater population of Yurijin https://bit.ly/2W9Nhli, women's role in the popularity of classroom stories shouldn't be discredited. Nor should their work moving Yuri out into broader spaces.

It is hard to communicate the various nuances of this exceptionally diverse genre while also making broad enough generalizations to discuss the greater movements of its history. But that is my job, and if I failed to communicate that nuance effectively I am very sorry Sad

Getting more variety is definitely nice. I remember reading a fair amount of Ebine Yamaji's stuff from the 2000s featuring mostly adult romances, and it was neat to get something different like that.

Last edited by Heishi on Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Years later I’m still on the belief that Kannazuki no Miko is a beautiful and misunderstood series that tried to do something different, but couldn’t get people to understand because of its premise, even when other works would do something similar to it.

My favorite and only favorite yuri and I will not apologize for it.

Honestly not sure how I feel about the recent changes with the genre. I feel like we keep getting more titles like How Do We Relationship?, Days of Love at Seagull Villa, If I Could Reach you, and After Hours. To me at least its not a good change. I feel like the type of yuri I enjoy will soon be in the minority. While I am happy the genre I love has been booming hopefully I wont be left in the dust.

Also I feel like you can enjoy a bunch more yuri content if you include subtext manga/anime. To me at least a confession or kiss is not necessary to prove two women are in a relationship (although it would be nice). My favorite example is always Nanoha. I mean they live together and raise a child together do the words really have to be said to prove they are in a relationship? Symphogear is another wonderful example but Ill stop here as I could fill pages and pages talking about why two fictional women in my favorite shows are dating.

Random Name wrote:

Honestly not sure how I feel about the recent changes with the genre. I feel like we keep getting more titles like How Do We Relationship?, Days of Love at Seagull Villa, If I Could Reach you, and After Hours. To me at least its not a good change. I feel like the type of yuri I enjoy will soon be in the minority. While I am happy the genre I love has been booming hopefully I wont be left in the dust.

Media changes a lot over time. For example, the magical girl series we get now are exceptionally different from those of the '90s.

I think Yuri is overdue for evolution, but with such a diverse audience I think any type of Yuri will continue to exist as long as there continues to be an audience. There are still schoolgirl romances being published, such as Whisper Me a Love Song and Failed Princesses.

Even Bloom Into You, far and away one of the most successful recent Yuri series, is largely a schoolgirl romance. I might praise its spin-off and ending for their depictions of the characters after high school, but 80% of the franchise follows teenagers.

I feel like there's been a recent trend of genre series with subtext that unexpectedly turns into text (Akanesasu Shoujo, Hina Logi, Kira Kira Precure; arguably Show By Rock! Mashumairesh! and Princess Connect; possibly Machikado Mazoku eventually).

YuriMother wrote:

I think Yuri is overdue for evolution, but with such a diverse audience I think any type of Yuri will continue to exist as long as there continues to be an audience. There are still schoolgirl romances being published, such as Whisper Me a Love Song and Failed Princesses.

Even Bloom Into You, far and away one of the most successful recent Yuri series, is largely a schoolgirl romance. I might praise its spin-off and ending for their depictions of the characters after high school, but 80% of the franchise follows teenagers.

I agree. I think that the prototypical model of a yuri title will continue as it's been the bread and butter for so long in the genre. It's just nice seeing other options. It's also nice seeing the title that are still set in high school (like Whisper Me a Love Song which is a great title) raising their game so to speak. They're not as cookie cutter similar to each other as many titles in the past have been.

Personally I am thrilled at the recent trend with yuri series to tackle settings not just in high school, and to show more adult material. It's also refreshing to show series, like How Do We Relationship, that deal with the couple(s) already IN a relationship. Not just the lead up to discovering the MC's like other girls.

I appreciate and have enjoyed many of the "set in high school" yuri titles, but one issue I always had was how the majority seemed to simply deal with the will they/won't they lead up. Once the characters admitted their feelings, and became an actual couple, there was little of the story left. Even though it's set in school Our Teachers Are dating is another title that breaks from the normal trends with the MC's being the teachers, not students. Plus there are some more mature scenes in the story too.

It's nice seeing yuri titles branch out more and spread their wings. Yuri titles are one of the few genres I can go to on a more regular basis for any sort of romance in manga. I find many shoujo titles a bit too angsty for me (remind me of YA novels, which makes sense given the primary targeted age demographic for many of them), or they can often start to blur together and not stand out among each other. "Romance" novels aimed at male viewers, like myself, are mostly just T&A titles. Some exceptions exist, like Blue Flag or My Love Story. Though I am not sure if male viewers are who they are really targeted for. While I certainly don't mind the ecchi titles (and own several), if I want actual romance, and something sweet and charming, then I'm not going the harem ecchi route. Hopefully BL titles can follow in the same footsteps as yuri titles and move past their normal formulas. I rather enjoyed I Hear the Sunspot and would love more titles like that as well.

Yuri is evolving. The next step is yuri being just usual part of life in the grand scheme of things, rather than its own separate story away from other stories. Then the next step is bisexual

YuriMother wrote:

The only time we see a sizable and trackable portion of the market change outside of school was the mid-to-late 2010s

I know, what I was trying to point out is that it's not that yuri as a "genre" (which it isn't but anyway let's use it for the sake of simplicity) has evolved beyond its initial boundaries, it's simply that the market has changed and expanded, due to various reasons, and this is reflected in the volume and nature of the content. Content about, say, adult lesbians has always been around, it's just that now there's more of it.

YuriMother wrote:

As for school-targetted Yuri only rising because of men, I think that is an oversimplification. Let's not forget that the work which brought about the S-revival in the early 2000s, Marimite, was female targetted, and while, as often happens with Yuri, it found a sizable home among the greater population of Yurijin https://bit.ly/2W9Nhli, women's role in the popularity of classroom stories shouldn't be discredited. Nor should their work moving Yuri out into broader spaces.

Oh sure, I know it's an oversimplification but also I don't think that the effect of yuri works openly targeting a male demographic, to the point where the word itself has by now evolved from "by women for women" content to encompass specifially male-targeted works where female consumers are secondary, can be understated. Marimite was hugely popular with male readers/viewers, specifically because it moved out of a female-only space, for better or for worse. For one, it was made into an anime which gave it a much larger reach, and two, its overall aesthetics in all its incarnations made it into something men could get into without having to buy magazines (or books I suppose) specifically and very visibly targeting a female readership. Obviously female mangaka and female readers also did a lot of work, but the influx of male readers/viewers has definitely played, and continues to play, a large part.

That said, please don't take this as me trying to say that the article is bad and whatnot, not at all. It's always good to have informative articles on relatively niche topics, and I understand that it's not possible to cover everything in the scope of a fixed number of characters. But I think it's definitely worth a footnote.

Redbeard 101 wrote:

Some exceptions exist, like Blue Flag or My Love Story.

My Love Story is a shoujo manga.

Redbeard 101 wrote:

Hopefully BL titles can follow in the same footsteps as yuri titles and move past their normal formulas.

They already have. Just because there's a lot of materials following popular formulas doesn't mean there's nothing else out there... popular tropes and formulas are popular for a reason, but it's not like consumers of BL (or yuri, for that matter, or shoujo manga, or...) all like the same thing all the time Smile

so there's content that caters to them as well.

YuriMother wrote:

Media changes a lot over time. For example, the magical girl series we get now are exceptionally different from those of the '90s.

I think Yuri is overdue for evolution, but with such a diverse audience I think any type of Yuri will continue to exist as long as there continues to be an audience. There are still schoolgirl romances being published, such as Whisper Me a Love Song and Failed Princesses.

Even Bloom Into You, far and away one of the most successful recent Yuri series, is largely a schoolgirl romance. I might praise its spin-off and ending for their depictions of the characters after high school, but 80% of the franchise follows teenagers.

I agree with your larger point about diversity in the genre being a good thing, and that it's wonderful that there has been a surge of popularity for it recently as well. I feel like I don't read enough romance stories about adults in manga in general, not just in Yuri, and the increase of adult centered romances can be nothing but a good thing.

All of this I feel like will be good for manga in general and the genre in general. From a personal perspective, though, I care less about this than I do about actually enjoying the works. Bloom Into You might be holding to a lot of established forms in the genre, but it does it incredibly well. It's not really about how successful it is, as much as how I feel about its quality. I don't tend to think the best works are necessarily the most original, but the ones that have the most craft and care that went into them. I think of Bloom Into You as one of the best romance manga in general, not just in the Yuri genre, and it's because of how intelligently written the characters are, how they fit in their setting, and how emotionally complicated their interactions are.

It's a tough line to draw, and I realize that it is out of the scope of your article. More yuri with more authors and more variety can be nothing but good for the quality of works. The more people that are writing and reading, the more likely it is that other great works will be written. I say that, but at the same time I don't want to get to the point where good works are being dismissed just because they are not doing anything new.

Completely unrelatedly, thanks for the article! I found out about a lot of older works I had never heard of that I will be checking out.

I think haunting, is the wrong word to describe "Last and First Idol". Horrorific is a better term.

TarsTarkas wrote:

I think haunting, is the wrong word to describe "Last and First Idol". Horrorific is a better term.

It's very hard to find a good adjective for a work that makes you want to claw your brain out through your eye sockets... GREAT book.

I could see "haunting" as meant to only apply to Otherside Picnic, but I appreciate being nudged towards noticing Last and First Idol's inclusion in the article. Hearing about it and reading it, I suppose I was amused by wondering how many other people were familiar with both Love Live and the English-language "future history" from the early 1930s, Last and First Men...

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