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NEWS: Anime Expo 2022 Reinstates Proof of COVID-19 Vaccination or Negative Test


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Electric Wooloo



Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 310
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:14 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The convention will require attendees to the Anime Expo 2022 event to show proof of vaccination for the new coronavirus disease (COVID-19) or a negative COVID-19 test taken 72 hours prior to attending the event. Regardless of vaccination status, masks will be required indoors (except in designated eating areas) and will be optional outdoors.


Does this paragraph not say the exact opposite of the headline?
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Brainchild129



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:06 pm Reply with quote
This is such an insanely bad look for AX. I know that enforcing it would have been a nightmare because AX is seemingly committed to screwing up everything possible when it comes to crowd management, but it's preferable to letting Covid run wild in a crowd that normally numbers in six figures and are packed in like sardines.

This also makes me nervous for Otakon, which is only two months away. Will they pull a similar stunt, or will they follow in the path of cons like Fanime and Anime Boston that held to their mask and vaccine requirements?
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5527
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:40 pm Reply with quote
it's really weird how people think COVID is gone. the reason it's gone down is BECAUSE of vaccines. requiring them is the logical thing for large events. Masks is nice but vaccines is better
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4422
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
it's really weird how people think COVID is gone. the reason it's gone down is BECAUSE of vaccines. requiring them is the logical thing for large events. Masks is nice but vaccines is better


It is still odd to be me that in more recent months there has been this collective mentality of "oh well." Even people that I know took it seriously, both online and personally, have seemingly stopped caring. More than once, they have gotten Covid, and acknowledged that they let their guard down and didn't wear a mask at an event. Thankfully, the vaccine did its thing and meant they didn't have severe symptoms, but it's at least an example of how the risks are still there.
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Sevokevo Royuki



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 284
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Brainchild129 wrote:
This is such an insanely bad look for AX. I know that enforcing it would have been a nightmare because AX is seemingly committed to screwing up everything possible when it comes to crowd management, but it's preferable to letting Covid run wild in a crowd that normally numbers in six figures and are packed in like sardines.

This also makes me nervous for Otakon, which is only two months away. Will they pull a similar stunt, or will they follow in the path of cons like Fanime and Anime Boston that held to their mask and vaccine requirements?


They said that it’s base on CDC and WHO recommendations… so there is no bad look for them as they are following the science that the government recommends… I see no issues in this.

Look the evidence is there and proven… getting the vaccine does not prevent you from spreading the virus… if it did.. the CDC would never have recommended still
Masking up for those that are vaccinated… all I see as by what’s happening today is the vaccine only helps you fight the virus so you don’t get severely sick of even die! In which case it’s to this day that I sided that only those that are immune compromised or have other conditions that make it worse (aka diabetes, obesity, HIV, etc)… those like myself that have been asymptomatic to this whole thing should NOT need to have the vaccine.

Judge me all you like. I don’t care… I only standing by the evidence I am seeing to this day.
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azabaro
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Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Kougeru wrote:
it's really weird how people think COVID is gone. the reason it's gone down is BECAUSE of vaccines. requiring them is the logical thing for large events. Masks is nice but vaccines is better


And both is better still, especially for indoor events that involve, say 100,000 people crammed together so tightly in hallways and lines they can barely move.

Even with the vaccine mandate I was hesitant about going to traditionally overcrowded parts of Anime Expo like the Artist Alley. Without the vaccine mandate (and a mask mandate that's likely to be poorly enforced, especially in crowded, warm spaces) I'm not certain about attending any part of AX.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2293
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:24 pm Reply with quote
Sevokevo Royuki wrote:
Look the evidence is there and proven… getting the vaccine does not prevent you from spreading the virus… if it did.. the CDC would never have recommended still


Vaccination doesn't drop the probabilities of (A) being infected or the probability of (B) spreading infection, if you develop a break-through infection, to zero, but it does significantly reduce them (per https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1.full#ref-1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v2 and https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2786040).

This isn't really news, though, or shouldn't be, anyway. No one with any reasonable understanding of medical science ever expected vaccination to drop your transmission probability (if infected), or your probability of being infected, to 0. Just to significantly reduce it; that's how vaccines work -- they reduce the probability of infection and transmission-if-infected to a low enough point that, if enough of us get vaccinated, then a new infection will tend to struggle to spread because it will mostly run into vaccinated people and have a much lower probability of (A) spreading and (B) replicating to a third person, if it does infect the first person. Reduce these probabilities enough and there is no longer a tendency for a single virus to become many viruses (aka "herd immunity"); this also works together in concert with masks, avoiding crowds, etc, all of which help to reduce viral spread as well, but through different mechanisms (and which are also only partially effective -- a mask doesn't drop your transmission-if-infected probability to 0 either, but combining it with a vaccine sure gets you closer!).

This paragraph from the JAMA editorial (third reference) is an especially useful summary of evidence on transmission (as of Delta; I haven't followed up on similar research for later variants):
JAMA Editorial wrote:
"Studies of viral dynamics further suggest that while viral loads in breakthrough infections may be as high in vaccinated individuals as they are in unvaccinated individuals, viral loads in those who are vaccinated decline more rapidly, and the virus that they shed is less likely to be culture-positive than virus shed by unvaccinated individuals.7,8 This suggests that people who are fully vaccinated are less likely to become infected and if infected, will be contagious for shorter periods than unvaccinated people. This is supported by transmission studies that confirm that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to close contacts compared with unvaccinated people, including the Delta variant.9 In a study of 7771 household contacts of 4921 index cases in the Netherlands, the rate of transmission from fully vaccinated household members was 13% vs 22% from unvaccinated household members (estimated vaccine effectiveness against transmission, 63% [95% CI, 46%-75%]).10 Similarly, in an English study of 151 821 contacts of 99 567 index patients, the rate of transmission from people fully vaccinated with BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) was 23% vs 49% for transmission from unvaccinated people (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 0.35 [95% CI, 0.26-0.48] for transmission of Delta to unvaccinated contacts; aOR, 0.10 [95% CI, 0.08-0.13] for transmission of Delta to fully vaccinated contacts).11"
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Brainchild129



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:45 pm Reply with quote
Sevokevo Royuki wrote:


They said that it’s base on CDC and WHO recommendations… so there is no bad look for them as they are following the science that the government recommends… I see no issues in this.

Look the evidence is there and proven… getting the vaccine does not prevent you from spreading the virus… if it did.. the CDC would never have recommended still
Masking up for those that are vaccinated… all I see as by what’s happening today is the vaccine only helps you fight the virus so you don’t get severely sick of even die! In which case it’s to this day that I sided that only those that are immune compromised or have other conditions that make it worse (aka diabetes, obesity, HIV, etc)… those like myself that have been asymptomatic to this whole thing should NOT need to have the vaccine..


Oh, you mean those CDC recommendations that were clearly changed not to protect people but instead to appease corporations who only wanted to push people back into offices and back into work ASAP, regardless of their health and the health of others? The ones that enabled an upswing in cases after months of decline due to mask and vaccine mandates? THOSE recommendations?

It's not like there aren't recent examples of cons who stuck to their guns on these regulations and managed to not . Fanime did it. Anime Boston did it. Hell, AnimeNYC managed it (as that early case of Omicron in one of its attendees was proven to have come from outside of the convention), even if their line management wasn't great at the start. AX could make an effort if it tried, but instead the leadership just decided to shrug its collective shoulders and absolve itself of responsibility. It's a disgusting, irresponsible decision.
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srlracing



Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 87
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:54 pm Reply with quote
I will be cancelling the tickets I bought literally yesterday. I barely was convinced to go with the safety precautions in place. Now... hell no.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2256
Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:26 pm Reply with quote
At this point it's not even worth being angry. I'm not saying policies don't matter, but even at small shows or shows that require vaccinations, there's been evidence of confirmed COVID cases. Assume every public space is infected, because COVID will never go away.

It's probably a better investment to think what we want out of our conventions, because they've been effectively unchanged for the past 30-40 years other than "got bigger" and I think there needs to be an industry-wide reassessment.
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kennedykicker



Joined: 31 Mar 2022
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:07 pm Reply with quote
Brainchild129 wrote:
Oh, you mean those CDC recommendations that were clearly changed not to protect people but instead to appease corporations who only wanted to push people back into offices and back into work ASAP, regardless of their health and the health of others? The ones that enabled an upswing in cases after months of decline due to mask and vaccine mandates? THOSE recommendations?


??? This reads like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Science is not scary nor radical. The CDC are made up of professional doctors and scientists. They are the ones people should be listening to here, not random people on the internet peddling anti-government conspriacy theories.
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azabaro
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Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 251
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:29 pm Reply with quote
kennedykicker wrote:

??? This reads like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Science is not scary nor radical. The CDC are made up of professional doctors and scientists. They are the ones people should be listening to here, not random people on the internet peddling anti-government conspriacy theories.


The CDC has been wrong about Covid numerous times during the pandemic; they spent months insisting that it wasn't airborne and that people shouldn't wear masks. The CDC also changed their definitions of various community transmission levels so that many regions could be reclassified overnight - see https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2022-02-25/cdc-eases-pandemic-covid-19-indoor-mask-guidelines (there has subsequently been a nationwide rise in cases; 7-day new case averages went from under 50K/day at the beginning of March to over 100K/day now).

Also, let's not pretend that the CDC is untouched by political concerns: as a part of the federal government they're subject to pressure by the Executive branch as well as from popular opinion (the latter may not have any official power over them, but if popular opinion turns against them enough they may lose what ability they have to direct public behavior). . More to Brainchild129's point, the CDC has changed guidance about isolation periods after a breakthrough infection in response to a request from the CEO of Delta Airlines (
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/29/1068731487/delta-ceo-asks-cdc-to-cut-quarantine). The CDC's policy changes are definitely not the result of a pure scientific process.
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charliepanayi



Joined: 17 Jul 2021
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:30 pm Reply with quote
Getting rid of vaccine mandates - great!
Stil requiring facemasks - well that's stupid

No idea why so many Very Online Americans are still hung up on covid, it's not going away, everyone's going to get it and the vaccines have blunted its impact (you want to know why people have moved on? This is why), you can spend your whole life panicking over it or move on, take your pick. Major events should drop all these daft rules now.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5915
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:49 pm Reply with quote
charliepanayi wrote:


No idea why so many Very Online Americans are still hung up on covid, it's not going away, everyone's going to get it


So the logical and intelligent idea is to let people run around with the virus and then passing it on to other people so the virus can spread and mutate to become resistant?

Either get the vaccine/antibodies or wear masks but stop being picky towards establishments actually giving a damn.


charliepanayi wrote:

and the vaccines have blunted its impact


Th vaccines that many people still refuse to get? because it either has microchips in it, they’re not Guinea pigs, it makes you sterile, or it has reptilian DNA in it, and the myriad of other bullshit excuses that have cropped up over the last year?

charliepanayi wrote:
(you want to know why people have moved on? This is why), you can spend your whole life panicking over it


Like the millions of people who can’t legitimately take the vaccine because of being immune compromised or other legitimate health issues and have to rely on those who can but won’t for the reasons I listed above?
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Sevokevo Royuki



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 284
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:54 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
Sevokevo Royuki wrote:
Look the evidence is there and proven… getting the vaccine does not prevent you from spreading the virus… if it did.. the CDC would never have recommended still


Vaccination doesn't drop the probabilities of (A) being infected or the probability of (B) spreading infection, if you develop a break-through infection, to zero, but it does significantly reduce them (per https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v1.full#ref-1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v2 and https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2786040).

This isn't really news, though, or shouldn't be, anyway. No one with any reasonable understanding of medical science ever expected vaccination to drop your transmission probability (if infected), or your probability of being infected, to 0. Just to significantly reduce it; that's how vaccines work -- they reduce the probability of infection and transmission-if-infected to a low enough point that, if enough of us get vaccinated, then a new infection will tend to struggle to spread because it will mostly run into vaccinated people and have a much lower probability of (A) spreading and (B) replicating to a third person, if it does infect the first person. Reduce these probabilities enough and there is no longer a tendency for a single virus to become many viruses (aka "herd immunity"); this also works together in concert with masks, avoiding crowds, etc, all of which help to reduce viral spread as well, but through different mechanisms (and which are also only partially effective -- a mask doesn't drop your transmission-if-infected probability to 0 either, but combining it with a vaccine sure gets you closer!).

This paragraph from the JAMA editorial (third reference) is an especially useful summary of evidence on transmission (as of Delta; I haven't followed up on similar research for later variants):
JAMA Editorial wrote:
"Studies of viral dynamics further suggest that while viral loads in breakthrough infections may be as high in vaccinated individuals as they are in unvaccinated individuals, viral loads in those who are vaccinated decline more rapidly, and the virus that they shed is less likely to be culture-positive than virus shed by unvaccinated individuals.7,8 This suggests that people who are fully vaccinated are less likely to become infected and if infected, will be contagious for shorter periods than unvaccinated people. This is supported by transmission studies that confirm that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to close contacts compared with unvaccinated people, including the Delta variant.9 In a study of 7771 household contacts of 4921 index cases in the Netherlands, the rate of transmission from fully vaccinated household members was 13% vs 22% from unvaccinated household members (estimated vaccine effectiveness against transmission, 63% [95% CI, 46%-75%]).10 Similarly, in an English study of 151 821 contacts of 99 567 index patients, the rate of transmission from people fully vaccinated with BNT162b2 (Pfizer-BioNTech) was 23% vs 49% for transmission from unvaccinated people (adjusted odds ratio [aOR], 0.35 [95% CI, 0.26-0.48] for transmission of Delta to unvaccinated contacts; aOR, 0.10 [95% CI, 0.08-0.13] for transmission of Delta to fully vaccinated contacts).11"


This I can agree with.. but now here in this thread people are wanting to cancel there ticket all because they don’t want to be around people that are possibly unvaccinated… for me.. I am like.. WHO CARES! Your at risk of getting it regardless of being vaccinated or not! There has been other cons that have the same rules to allow unvaccinated people in and there has been no super spreaders for a long time…
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