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GAME: Super Mario Maker




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Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 1594
Location: A Cave Filled With Riches
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:42 am Reply with quote
So, in other words: this game is a massive disaster waiting to happen. Confused

......In a good way.
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5053
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:54 am Reply with quote
I really, REALLY hope there will be an update that will add more robust search options. That minor recent one where it lessened the time restrictions for getting more items is a start so I'd imagined they heard the pleas. Adding more tools like adding water and lava tiles would be nice. And especially they should consider adding in checkpoints considering how some levels can get unnecessarily or unintentionally long; I can see the maker having to beat the level twice (one at the start and one at the checkpoint) before uploading it. This is the game that definitely has room to improve over time.

I have to say though, a lot of the Expert level courses are just sadistic that one wonders how can a human complete these before uploading them. I think I came across a course that emulated I Wanna be the Guy. Anime hyper
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Just-another-face



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:17 pm Reply with quote
I hate how immature trolls design levels for this game and claim, "This is how Mario levels should be because the actual games are too easy!" They really should have their levels banned or their uploading privileges blocked because we don't need idiots and their crap ideas ruining what should be a fun experience. Unfortunately, the real problem stems from some conceited Mario fans who think they know how levels in the games should be designed according to their "vast knowledge based on years of gameplay".
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1906
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Just-another-face wrote:
I hate how immature trolls design levels for this game and claim, "This is how Mario levels should be because the actual games are too easy!" They really should have their levels banned or their uploading privileges blocked because we don't need idiots and their crap ideas ruining what should be a fun experience. Unfortunately, the real problem stems from some conceited Mario fans who think they know how levels in the games should be designed according to their "vast knowledge based on years of gameplay".

It's a good thing we have you who knows how levels really should be designed.
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VDZ



Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Just-another-face wrote:
I hate how immature trolls design levels for this game and claim, "This is how Mario levels should be because the actual games are too easy!" They really should have their levels banned or their uploading privileges blocked because we don't need idiots and their crap ideas ruining what should be a fun experience. Unfortunately, the real problem stems from some conceited Mario fans who think they know how levels in the games should be designed according to their "vast knowledge based on years of gameplay".


I bought this game specifically for the extremely difficult levels. While there are "hard" levels there are just poorly designed, a level being impossibly difficult is not necessarily bad design and there is significant demand for such levels.

In fact, some of the ridiculously hard levels have very innovative designs. For example, I've seen a level where you have to jump from Parakoopa to Parakoopa all the way across the level, and I've seen a level which forced you to grow large first, then run through an enemy and jump at the exact moment the shrink animation finishes. There's some very well-designed "impossible" courses out there.

All that said, in both the course browser and the 100 Mario Challenge you can select a difficulty; Easy will not have any ridiculous levels, and Normal doesn't have many of them (and you can skip them when you do encounter them). If you play on Expert, it's your own fault and you have no right to complain.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2115
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:07 pm Reply with quote
So far my greatest accomplishment was beating a level that took me about ~100 tries...

It was a SMW level that required you carry a p-switch all the way to the end of the goal, and you have to do crap like throw it up in the air and vine jump, catch it on the way down... Get yoshi to carry it in his mouth and spit it out as you discarded him into a pit for extra jump height, etc... It was really well designed with a number of extremely tight spin jumps too (taken inspiration from the "Kaizo Mario" series I think)...

But for each good difficult level like the above there are 50 ones that just have 50 enemies on the screen at once and the only way to beat them is to find the hidden star block the creator put in as a "cheat" for them to beat the level with.

By the way, someone beat my first damn level... It's not THAT hard, and yet 150 attempts no one has gotten past the half way point:
EC86-0000-0012-AB1A
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IanC



Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 673
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:46 pm Reply with quote
If a level has a low completion rate, it gets locked into Expert only in the 100 Mario Challenge mode.

And going by Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon Nintendo do regular updates to games adding new features and the like. So I would the surprised if they add a proper search and tag feature at some point.
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Ryusui



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 448
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:32 am Reply with quote
Believe it or not, I'm actually enjoying the kaizo-type madness. My personal best on Expert is 4 stages out of 16, and I've yet to skip one. Anime hyper
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Lupin the Third



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 87
Location: Idaho
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:53 am Reply with quote
Hey Heidi, the review is completely accurate and fair. However, I did want to note that if you open a level's detailed info page, you can click on the "Comments" button and post a response about someone's crappy level directly into the Miiverse thread without auto-starring the level. It seems like a straight-up design flaw, but my guess is it's Nintendo's attempt to discourage negativity.
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falcon.punch



Joined: 07 Jan 2015
Posts: 693
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:26 pm Reply with quote
I'm disappointed to the lack of Athletic songs. But otherwise, is fine game for everyone and trolls alike.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:39 am Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
I have to say though, a lot of the Expert level courses are just sadistic that one wonders how can a human complete these before uploading them. I think I came across a course that emulated I Wanna be the Guy. Anime hyper


Two things at work here: I Wanna Be the Guy is what some people think is the pinnacle of 2-D platforming and that they all should be like that; and the creator will always have an easier time because they know exactly what's where and how to deal with obstacles.

There's an essay in the manual advising course creators to keep in mind other players; what is easy for the creator may be maddeningly difficult for everyone else.

(For the record, I have attempted Expert twice. The first time, I reached Course 12, and the second time, I got all the way to 16, but with only one life left, I didn't stand a chance. Turns out that of the 15 courses I did beat on that second attempt, I was the first to beat 5 of them. It was infuriating.)

VDZ wrote:
All that said, in both the course browser and the 100 Mario Challenge you can select a difficulty; Easy will not have any ridiculous levels, and Normal doesn't have many of them (and you can skip them when you do encounter them). If you play on Expert, it's your own fault and you have no right to complain.


To unlock all of the Mystery Mushroom suits, however, you have to complete 100-Mario Challenge on Expert, even if you have every single amiibo ever made.

It gets rather frustrating to see all of this trial-and-error stuff going on (required invisible blocks, offscreen enemies, hidden enemies that pop out to punish common Mario paths, stages where it's not clear how to proceed, etc.).

People often confuse, say, raining Fire Piranhas down from the sky and thinking that this is challenge. Any time I see Mario die, I want it to be because I made an error in judgment or timing, not because some Thwomp was placed above the screen with nothing hinting it's there.

samuelp wrote:
But for each good difficult level like the above there are 50 ones that just have 50 enemies on the screen at once and the only way to beat them is to find the hidden star block the creator put in as a "cheat" for them to beat the level with.


Is THAT what they do? That is intensely unfair. That explains why I often see stages that look outright unwinnable the moment the screen fades in.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 2115
Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:58 pm Reply with quote
As an update, I've noticed a significant up-tick in the quality of levels I've been getting...

I played the other night and there were a whole lot of difficult but innovative courses that took me 20-40 tries to beat but were fun and thought provoking.

One level i found was a ghost house where you had to get a koopa shell to land IN a clown car, and push the clown car around and then free the koopa to get it to destroy blocks in a certain situation... Took me almost 30 minutes of trying a bunch of things to figure it out.
Another level was an airship level with branching paths and a final koopa battle...
Another was a platform on a track level which ended in a koopa battle where you constantly rotates around koopa and had to kill him with fireballs to get a p-switch he was guarding in the middle to get to the goal...

There was even a level with a wiggler on a track instead of a platform, twisting and turning through blades... I couldn't beat this one but it was an amazing concept.

I guess there really is a learning curve as people figure out the best way to use all these things that are thrown at them Either that or it just takes a little while for the ranking/sorting algorithm to figure out what's good and what's bad. Also thanks to the person who actually beat my level after seeing it in this thread Smile
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Just-another-face



Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Fronzel wrote:
It's a good thing we have you who knows how levels really should be designed.


I never said nor implied that, so you can keep your sarcasm to yourself. You obviously have no idea what I was referring to.
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