Forum - View topicPrincess Mononoke - a masterpiece?
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
farruinn
 Posts: 122 |
|
|||
|
I just watched Princess Mononoke (English dub), and while I enjoyed it and thought it was rather good, I don't see how this qualifies as a masterpiece. So, what am I missing? According to the encyclopedia page, approximately two fifths of the people who've watched it thought it was a masterpiece.
This is what keeps me from considering it a masterpiece: --- While the animation is good, it's nothing stellar in my opinion. Certainly nothing less than I'd expect from a feature-length film. --- The plot is somewhat interesting. I even consider myself a bit of a naturalist and environmentalist, so I appreciate it for those qualities as well, but again, not a masterwork plot in my opinion. --- The characters aren't developed as much as I would expect of a masterpiece. We learn about Ashitaka through his actions and whatnot, but he seems pretty one-dimensional to me. --- I watched the English dub, and as far as they go, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't anything that impressed me. Now, perhaps I'm being overly-critical of a movie that came out in 1997, but I reiterate, what am I missing here? |
||||
|
||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||
Reading the manga version of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. |
||||
|
||||
|
JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
|
|||
|
You're probably missing immersion. That's a lot of the reason that people (like myself) consider it a perfect film.
--The animation is stellar for 1997, seriously. No CG or mad fps rates maybe, but in terms of animation telling a story, you can't get too much better. Look at scenes where Ashitaka runs down a hill and you can feel weight and stumbling there. That's VERY difficult to portray in animation, the concept of something feeling heavy and tangible. Pain is hard to convey in animation too, but there's plenty of flinch-worthy moments in Mononoke. Technically speaking, look at the demon worms on the boars in the movie. That was hand-drawn. Just think about that for a minute. That was entirely hand-drawn, every last worm moving independently without looking too patterned. 
--Miyazaki's not much of a man for plot, but this movie has more deliberate plotting than any of his others by far! I thought the story was very coherent and served the imagery well...Miyazaki's an animator. He thinks backward like that, putting images and feelings first, and then building some story around it. Spirited Away was a story MESS, but he was probably more concerned with the moments like pulling a bicycle out of a stink-spirit that were so stunning. --You're the second person I've heard that from. The first was a guy that loved Tarantino movies and art films, so maybe really layered characters is a big thing for you. Not all masterpieces have to be character-focused, they just have to have dimensional characters, 2-D at least, somewhat dynamic. In Mononoke's case, the characters were all very classic fairytale tropes, but they were developed beyond that into believable characters. Not really complex or original, but they served their purpose and weren't cliche or unrealistic either, so I was happy with it anyway. This wasn't the kind of movie to get into really deep character moments. There was too much spectacle involved to waste precious minutes on that. --You must be hard to impress. That's one of my favorite dubs. The real thing for people with Princess Mononoke is the same thing for all of Miyazaki's films. It's about immersion, it's about getting lost in a movie and coming out kind of starry-eyed. Princess Mononoke does this for a lot of people, but not everybody, so if you weren't really sucked in to the other world that the filmmakers created, you're probably not going to consider it a masterpiece, no. I think it's a technical marvel and that the story is very well-done, but that's not the reason it's a "perfect film" to me, it's probably more rooted in the visceral emotion of it for me, which is just as important. |
||||
|
||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9903 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||
Em, not quite. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
JacobC
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
|
|||
|
^ Well, I was nearly right.
 I knew the feelers on Ashitaka were CG, but I thought the rest of the pig was hand-drawn. Huh.
*goes back and watches that part of the movie* Okay, I can tell the difference now. MOST of the demon worms in the movie were hand-drawn, but close detail shots of Nago, like the very first one where we see his foot or the one where he gets shot in the eye, were CG. My error. Still, Okkoto was hand drawn. (The black mask that the worms grow out of on his body is CG, but the worms themselves and their motion is hand-drawn.) And much of Nago was as well. There are just a few exceptions that you can see on the website and with the naked eye if you're paying close attention. It's still really impressive, they just used a few "shortcuts." (As if 3-D rendering wasn't fairly difficult as well, it's just less time-consuming than the alternative because you can program motions and variations rather than having to articulate them individually by hand.) I'm blabbering. A LOT of it was hand-drawn. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
farruinn
Posts: 122 |
|
|||
Alright, I'll chalk that one up to not being familiar with how animation has changed over time. I don't think it's bad - and I did like a lot of the movement (watching Yakul jump around was great) - I just felt it "meets expectations" rather than exceeds.
Yes, I probably am hard to impress when it comes to English dubs. The only English dubs I've ever liked better than the original Japanese were Cowboy Bebop, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (I thought Kyon's inner dialogues were great), and Hellsing. Thank you for your input, I think I have a better idea of what other people see in this movie now. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was great, I just can't come to call it a masterpiece yet. |
||||
|
||||
Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
|
|||
Agreed. The fantasy environments so often formed within his films are quite distinct from the worlds I tend to somehow become absorbed into (I'm a bit of a cyberpunk fan myself). This is a purely subjective thing for me to say though; it's analogous to my preference for bilberries over blueberries. |
||||
|
||||
Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
|
|||
|
Your problem is that your judging it on things that aren't necessary to make a movie good. The "quality" of animation is not something to see as being good or bad, but merely different. Also dubing should not go into judging the quality of the movie. The final reason for your different opinion of the movie is it just didn't seem to suit you like it did many other people. Your not missing anything, it's just that you don't like it as much as many others do.
|
||||
|
||||
Mistypearl
 Posts: 517 |
|
|||
Then again, aren't we talking about Princess Mononoke? They are similar, but I don't see what reading Nausicaa would do for his Mononoke experience xD Eh, it has many redeeming points, but some people just like it more, or less than you might. I'm more of a fan of Nausicaa than Mononoke myself :/ |
||||
|
||||
|
Lee1981
Posts: 109 |
|
|||
|
Calling something a masterpiece is completely subjective and no matter how many people love something and call it a masterpiece, there will always be people who just don't like it or just don't think its as great as everyone else does.
I've only watched the movie once and its been about 2 years now since I saw it, so keep that in mind with regards to these comments. But one of the things I had a problem with in the movie is how the main character was supposed to be cursed in such a way that is supposed to make it so he has even more violent impulses than before and it makes it harder for him to control such feelings, and this is why he was banished from his home town, but I just never bought into that, especially since he was probably the biggest pacifist in the whole movie and was pretty much the only one who wanted all the sides to coexist peacefully and put behind their vendettas. It really didn't seem like he was having to struggle very hard against the dark side to me, no matter how big of a deal they made about that aspect; it was like we were just supposed to take their word for it that he was struggling with such a horrific curse. Aside from that, I do think it's a good movie, not a masterpiece, but it's good. I thought it had a good plot (from what I remember), and the character development was good enough, considering the two-hour running time, and overall it was a good watch. But as with any media, whether it be books, animation, movies, or comics, everyone's mileage may vary. I mean, I'm definitely not a Quentin Terrintino fan--I hated Pulp Fiction and I didn't think Resevoir Dogs was that great a movie, but everyone else thinks he's a cinematic genius. |
||||
|
||||
HMMcKamikaze
 Posts: 189 |
|
|||
|
I'm one of those people that considers Princess Mononoke to be a masterpiece. It's definitely one of Miyazaki's best films, but not as good as Spirited Away as far as I'm concerned, and I feel it's neck and neck with Porco Rosso. The animation is amazing for it's time (10 years does make a difference,) and the soundtrack is one of the best of any film I've seem.
Now, I don't know how many times you watched this, but repeat viewings definitely help. I disliked it so much the first time that it was around almost year before I gave it a second shot. However, when I rented it along with Pan's Labyrinth, in the course of a few days I ended up watching it 2 or 3 times and preferring it quite a bit over Pan which was largely because I thought the story was deeper overall. Yes, the main characters are a little formulaic, but the struggles portrayed in the film are very original. A complex issue is tackled, and in the end it isn't even solved. No side is shown as being good or evil.Everyone has their own faults, and their own motives for fighting over land. Miyazaki does not present an answer to the question of man vs. nature; he only investigates the repercussions of a total war. |
||||
|
||||
Ardlien
 Posts: 59 |
|
|||
|
It's the music that puts it that level above for me, I happened to watch it recently and one of the themes (I believe it's called journey to the west) as well as the scene where Ashitaka comes between San and Eboshi sends shivers down my spine every single time.
|
||||
|
||||
|
TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
|
|||
I agree, particularly when most claims that the movie was "a masterpiece" were made long before Disney/Miramax dubbed it into English. |
||||
|
||||
|
farruinn
Posts: 122 |
|
|||
If you're not taking these things into consideration, then what are you? Of course you must consider the animation and dubbing (or subbing), as well as the plot, characters, setting, soundtrack, designs, etc. They're all parts of a whole, and you can't have a masterpiece without excellence in every category. Let me draw an analogy. Let's say a musical artist records a piece of music that can be considered a masterpiece in its own right. If that recording doesn't do it justice or has major flaws, then the recording of the masterpiece cannot be considered a masterpiece. HMMcKamikaze: I also watched Spirited Away recently, and I agree that it outshines Princess Mononoke. I felt it achieved the "immersion" that JesusOtaku was talking about much better. Maybe this is because I found the setting and events just so interesting. In comparison, Princess Mononoke seemed rather trivial and generic to me. I will certainly take your advice and watch it a few more times though. |
||||
|
||||
|
TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
|
|||
No you don't. The dubbing or subtitles aren't even part of the original work. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group