Forum - View topicMaking 'quality' anime.
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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While perusing threads I have for a while come upon people expressing the sentiment that companies should focus on making fewer, higher quality shows and to not make the moe/loli/etc type shows.
Now, I agree that quality > quantity to a point (so long as there is at least some quantity...). But what do people actually want to see made? If all people want are things like Tehxnolyze, Eva, and so on then I'd be very disappointed. Don't get me wrong, those are good shows which I enjoy but my favourite shows, by a long way are those like Hidamari Sketch, Hyakko!, Wagaya no Oinari Sama and Toradora! and Clannad. As far as I am concerned quality is not synonymous with 'intellectual' or thought provoking, quality is entirely determined by how much I enjoy watching it, how much I want to watch it again and how hard it is to wait for the next episode. I prefer one or two 'serious' series surrounded by half a dozen fluffy ones for any given season. The fluff should be good fluff but fluff none the less. What I'd like to know is what people mean when they say 'quality' shows. If we had a season in which we had 7 or so shows like texhnolyze, Kurenai, Mnemosyne and so forth I know I'd find that season depressing and difficult to watch and probably wouldn't bother with many of the shows even if they were excellent. Variety has a quality all it's own but sometimes I don't want total variety, sometimes I want to have 3 similar, warm and fuzzy style shows (note, not moe/loli harems) in a given season. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Were it true that subjective quality can exist only in virtue of intellectual content, I'd only be burying my head in academic books during my free evenings (like I ought to be). There exist plenty of anime which primarily appeal to the rational faculties, but it was through emotional content and not thought-provoking stimulus by which I discovered my passion for such a medium. If anything I find a quality show to be something by which I can escape from my rational concerns. Not that I cannot enjoy the more cerebral things out there. I highly enjoyed Patlabor the Movie, but in such a film my pleasure derived from watching the antagonist's method and motive being exposed more than it did from any commentary directed at our world instead of the fictional one depicted. Had it been a more complicated tale I probably wouldn't give it such praise. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well, I can't speak for everyone who says they want more quality anime...but I'm going to anyway. When people say this they don't mean they want every show to be like NGE. 'Quality' doesn't have to be extremely thought provoking, psychological, or dark and depressing. Light-hearted genres can be done well too. Even moe can be good. (In rare circumstances) Also, nobody saying they want all anime to be like that. Everyone likes a little crap now and then. I've been known to throw on a generic action flick or 'b' horror movie now and then. It's just that it seems so much nowadays doesn't even try to be good and just tosses up the same old lame cliches and caters to the lowest common denominator.
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I consider a quality show to be one that does what it set out to do (meets the expectations of its genre) and more. I love deep shows and thought-provoking stories, but they're not the standard for quality out there. They surpass the standard for quality, because anime is entertainment, and entertainment doesn't have to be thought-provoking to be good.
So yeah, something like Full Metal Panic! would be good, but not what I'd call "quality." It meets the expectations of its genre and it's fun, but it's not much else. It doesn't make you sit up and pay attention and say "Wow, this is really something special." But then you see Fullmetal Alchemist, and that's quality. That is a terrific shonen show all on its own, but completely surpasses what you expect and gives you a story that transcends its genre or, at the very least, milks it to its fullest. (Maybe there are better examples, because FMA is a very deep show.) Okay, then something like Ouran compared to the standard reverse-harem eye-candy comedy. The great thing about that show is that it does all the necessary "fanservice for chicks" things and then steps above them to act as a self-parody of its own genre...but it can still do gentle drama well when it has to...with great animation, music, and performances. That's quality. Not deep or anything, just quality. |
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farruinn
 Posts: 122 |
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Personally, this is not at all how I determine "quality". I try to be very objective when determining the quality of an anime (eg, how I rate it here at ANN). How good is the animation? The character designs? The soundtrack? The voice acting? Most importantly, the storytelling? Now, a "quality anime" probably will be enjoyable and will keep you in anticipation for each episode, but I wouldn't define quality that way. For example, I do not consider something like Tower of Druaga to be a high quality show, yet I couldn't help myself from watching it. I think it's what you'd call a "guilty pleasure". In the end, though, no matter how objectively we try to look at a show, it's difficult to ignore how much we actually enjoyed it. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 5304 |
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I certainly wouldn't want every single show on the market to be a complex and thought-provoking opus. We all need the Gurren Laganns of the world to round out our diets, shows that are of undeniable quality yet intended mostly for simple entertainment. (Hell, I wouldn't be enjoying One Piece more and more over 240 episodes in if I didn't think like that.
 ) But at the same time, the majority of the shows that I put at the very top of my favorites list fall into that Paranoia Agent/Haibane Renmei/Wolf's Rain mold of requiring a great deal of thought and introspection. Those types of shows are really why I got into anime in the first place, and I eat them up like nothing else. I think the common complaint from many people out there isn't that they wish for a glut of said shows, but that that sort of show seems to be more and more underrepresented in today's market. While there is such a thing as good fluff, there is just as certainly such a thing as bad fluff, and it seems as though there have been an increasing number of examples of the latter.
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farruinn
Posts: 122 |
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I have a feeling this is for two reasons. One, there are still plenty of people that enjoy and will buy the series that don't fit into that mold, and two, I imagine it's much more difficult to make a good "intellectual" anime. I think JesuOtaku really hit the mark talking about how well a show fulfills what it set out to accomplish. |
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GrinfilledCelt
 Posts: 75 Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc. |
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This whole thread can be summed up as, 'It takes all kinds to make a world'. Ask a hundred people to list out their top ten most and least favorite shows and you will end up with a hundred different lists. Many shows will appear on both lists.
A good example is Neon Genesis Evangelion. Many people think that show is the greatest thing ever, while myself and many others think it is a completely useless %@$# (sorry, I couldn't find words scathing enough). I suffered through twenty-five episodes, listening to that sniveling momma's boy whimper and complain, wondering why no one knocked him upside the head and at least put him in Basic Training, only to get to that completely worthless, pompous, incomprehensible, BS of an ending that resolved nothing. After all these years, I'm still angry about that and want my seven hours back. Yet there are people who watch that thing over and over again because, "It's so good." Okay, to each his own, I say. I realize that not everyone is going to like the same stuff I like and that's alright. I wouldn't like being a farmer, fortunately there are other people who do. That's a good thing. So when I talk about an anime I like, I try to say why so that others can decide for themselves if they would like it too. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I myself consider Hellsing Ultimate to be a high quality series. Especially when I compare it to the TV series, they have a lot more freedom and open thought about what they can put into the OVA, on the basis that it is indeed an OVA. Animation is a big plus, but also the fact that you had the VAs bringing their characters back to life in a light that they were envisioned in the first place, plus the addition of Norio Wakamoto as Father Alexander Anderson.
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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It's not even that, really, so much as how much of the fluff being made is throwaway and unimaginative (as you allude to in your last point). I love Paranoia Agent/Haibane Renmei/Wolf's Rain, and I also love well-written and directed entertainment for entertainment's sake. If we had more series like FLCL and Baccano!, then the industry would be better off; instead, we're left with tired rehashes that have only the slightest tweaks of other awkward moe-inducing shows and action series.
The clinically-depressed can hardly be described as "sniveling momma's boy"! (Not that you have to like Shinji's character, but dismissals of the mentally ill always baffle me.) |
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farruinn
Posts: 122 |
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To preface everything, I like both the TV series and the OVA, but I don't understand what you mean here. I don't see how the OVA has more freedom than the series - it seems to hold to the manga as much as possible while the TV series made much more use of various "freedoms". To be honest, I think the OVA holds so closely to the manga that the flow and pacing is a bit off in places. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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This is hard to answer because the meaning term "quality" differs depending on who's using it. Personally I would say that a "quality" anime would be anything with good writing and directing. I don't focus much on the type of anime. As long as I enjoy it I'll say it's quality, it's that simple. I find that my definition of "quality" appears more often in dramas and what not, but that's not to say that it's limited to those genres. It's hard for me to explain, I'm kind of at a lose of words to explain this. But I think you get what I'm trying to say.
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GrinfilledCelt
Posts: 75 Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc. |
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My point was that you aren't going to get much consensus on what constitutes "quality" when one man's profound revelation is the next man's worn out, obvious platitude and the funniest thing the third man ever heard. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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On the contrary, that to me is what makes the OVA better. It is more free to put in blood and other stuff as it is meant to be. You can only show so much on TV before you are going to get censored for offensive material and what not. To me the OVA by holding close to the manga is itself a true adaption of the manga, bringing these epic characters to life. Not only the characters we saw in the TV series, but characters who were supposed to come up but didn't, as portrayed in the manga. And that's what the OVA provides, missing links. |
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farruinn
Posts: 122 |
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Sorry, I didn't realize you meant freedom as in freedom from censorship (although I thought the series was pretty gory itself?). It just seemed odd to me to say the OVA had "freedom" when they hold so closely to the manga. I agree it's great that they're make a true adaptation of the manga, even if it does make the pacing a little odd in places. Sorry for the tangent, back to the actual discussion...
True, but that's why I try to be objective as possible. It sort of relates to what Mushi-Man said too, about recognizing quality in genres that don't necessarily suit your tastes. Experience probably affects our opinions as well. For example, I get the sense there are others like myself who saw some shounen action anime early on and thought it was the greatest thing, but reevaluated their opinion after seeing more anime. In a sense quality is comparative. You see how great the animation or storytelling can be in some shows, and the bar continues to be raised by the best titles. So, those who have watched a lifetime of anime may have a different perspective and idea of "quality" than those who have just started out. |
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