Forum - View topicMoral dilemma with fan subs...
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Emerje
 Posts: 7549 Location: Maine |
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OK, I've always felt strongly against fansubs of domestic releases, but then I got thinking, what if it's broadcasted on TV? If it's free in the US should the same rules apply? No one is losing money. Take for example Pokemon, If people were actualy in posesion of Pokemon fan subs would they be violating anything by keeping them seeing as how it's constantly shown on TV for free? I've never thought of this before, but I started downloading Dragon ball GT fansubs so should I get rid of them next year when FUNi releases them, or should I keep them since they're going to be free on TV anyway?
Any thoughts? Emerje |
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JETBLACK87
 Posts: 1073 |
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I think the same thing could be said about anything on tv.
two things. 1. is that its just like recording. so then it can't be to bad. as long as you don't sell it. 2. is that its stoping you from buying it from the companies. but if they wanted to stop that they would sell theirs for less. |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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You shouldn't be downloading anything that's licensed. GT is licensed, therefore you shouldn't be downloading it.
As for the broadcasting on TV, you are paying for it in a roundabout way. To air the show, the channel needs sponsors. Sponsors put all those commercials on during your show. Hopefully, you'll go out and buy something from those sponsors, which in turn pays for putting your show on TV (keep going in this circle o' tv life). If you have a fansub, you aren't paying for it and the advertisers aren't paying for it. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10539 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Thought: Be careful of how you use the word free. Shows broadcast on TV are not free, but it isn't the audience that's paying for them. The money train goes like this: Payperview: Viewer -> Station/provider -> Licensor -> creators Broadcast: Advertisors -> station -> licensor -> creators Theatrical: Viewers -> Theatre -> distributor -> creators Home video: Viewers -> retail market -> publisher -> creators fansub: - [bootleg]: viewer -> criminal So, as you can see, if you take people away from one of the 1st four markets by giving them free fansubs... someone is losing money. In regards as to what you're supposed to do... "Fansub Ethical Rules" generally call for you to destroy or erase the fansub when a commercial release is made. Furthermore, as Cassandra said, strict interpretation of Fansub Ethical rules generally means that you're not supposed to have a fansub of a licensed title, even if it hasn't been released yet. |
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JETBLACK87
Posts: 1073 |
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I have a question(not meaning to take away from the main topic), does anyone know why companies sell their dvds for so much? is it because its not popular enough? because I think they would get alot more sales if they where cheaper.
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Generally, anime is more difficult to sell than, say, The Simpsons. However, I have noticed a gradual trend in the overall lowering of anime DVD prices. (Granted, that's not all companies lowering prices but I can see it starting.) Anime DVDs are starting to be priced about the same as "regular" DVDs.
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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My local anime shop has the same policy as Cassandra when it comes to fansubs. As soon as a series is licensed and available to the public for rental/purchase, they dispose of the fansubs. Also, they charge no money for fansub rental, and will not sell them to you. They'll copy them, if you supply the tape and are a good friend, but never sell.
I support that policy. I own all 26 episodes of Chobits on AVI file discs, and fansub tapes of Initial D: First Stage. When Tokyopop starts releasing the Initial D DVD's, and Pioneer the Chobits DVD's, those subs are in the trash. (well, the discs. the tapes I can use for something else) I support the anime induustry in the states, and will make every effort to spend my money on them. But if a product is not yet available in the states, I'll find a fansub until it is. I think it's sort of like borrowing a friend's car until you've got your own. You're seeing if it's what you want, learning about it, and then, once you can actually get the real deal, you give up the test subject. |
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JETBLACK87
Posts: 1073 |
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well then how about downloading an episode to see if you want to buy it? it seems it would help the companies. you know what would be a good idea is if they started giving out or selling(for cheap) a compalation(sp?) of episodes from shows so that if people like them they would buy them. |
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Vicious
 Posts: 97 |
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Things do get blurred a bit when somethings on tv, though the letter of the law still says it's wrong. When Cowboy Bebop first started showing on CN I d/l eps of it, simply because I didn't want to wait a week to see the next episode. There's a argument that I'm ripping off the sponsers, but at the same time I was at work whenever CB came on. I would have recorded it and skiped all of the comercials anyway(And actually that's what I did, wanted to see the dub/sub differences). Not legaly, but morally what is the difference between the two? Either way the sponsers aren't getting my viewership. Is it wrong for me to skip through the commercials? If not then what's wrong with me downloading it? It's certainly not the same argument as downloading something that's not on tv.
(Just a note that I DID eventually buy all of the bebop DVDs) The lines are different, especially with anime. Getting off the subject of tv or not on tv and speaking of anime in general it gets special treatment for some reason when it comes to people getting bootlegs of it. Like last season, I missed a episode or two of Buffy so I downloaded them. I've also downloaded a bunch of farscape sinse the sci fi channel is on the third tier $70 cable package and I don't want to pay a extra $30 a month just for one show. And while it's wrong for me to do that(In the case of farscape at least) nobody cares about that for some reason. I doubt even the creators of the shows care. But if somebody were to download some Trigun or whatever then he's a evil bastard and also not a real fan because a real fan would support the creators. It kind of makes me think people flame those who d/l anime more to justify all the money they've spent on it then anything else. |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Downloading an episode to see if you like the series (followed by deleting it) and downloading an episode to replace the DVD (and thus keeping it) are hard to distinguish between, particularly when you can only see that files *are* being downloaded, but not for what purpose.. .. and the fact that "everyone" says they do the former... when in fact "everyone" APPEARS to be doing the latter is a bit troublesome in and of itself. And... licensing issues make including multiple-series-on-the-same-DVD unlikely at best, and impossible at worst. It's happened before, and will happen again, but if the Japanese companies say "No", whatcha gonna do? |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that legally even if you tape something off TV you're only supposed to watch it once, then tape over it. It's technically illegal to use a recording of something taped off TV more than once. I know nobody follows that, but hey...
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Cgoten
Posts: 390 Location: Glenview, Illinois |
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I don't know about that, the prices are still high, but at least they seem to be putting more episodes on a disc than before so it's worth the extra money. I don't mind paying $45 for (example) an Outlaw Star DVD with 9 episodes on it but paying $30 for 3 episodes is a bit much.
I think the closest we'll ever get to that is the $2 preview disc FUNi put out with 2 episodes of Fruits Basket and a Dragon Ball GT trailer on it. |
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Cassandra
Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Most anime DVDs are in the $25 area. That's about average for a regular DVD right now. (I'm not counting box sets or some special editions where its obviously more expensive.) Just like there are a lot of anime titles going for like $15.... On average, anime DVD prices have dropped a lot.... |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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I see fansubs as nothing more than a stand-in fo a series until its stateside release. Let's look at an old fan's stand-by series that still (as far as I know) hasn't been picked up: Violinist Hamelyn. It's a cool series, and is very unique. Unfortunately, a combination of no budget animation (about 70% of the series is still panning), odd storyline, and low profile creators has it relegated to "cult phenomenon" status. Which makes it that much more eclectic since anime is considered, by the general public, as a sort of cult phenomenon. Now, that series is held onto by fans with fansubs. There is no way for them to "legally" acquire the series and understand it without fluently speaking Japanese and actually going to Japan and hunting down VHS copies of the series. Therefore, fansubs are a necessary evil in that situation. The guy I'd be mad at is some jerk with a bunch of DBZ mpegs burned onto CD-R's and a cheapo Avex DVD player. You know, the ones you pick up for 60 bucks that also play Mp3's and mpegs. That's a situation where you aren't watching an unavailable series, waiting for it to be released. You're just being a pirate.
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Cgoten
Posts: 390 Location: Glenview, Illinois |
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Well, yes, some companies have lowered prices but look at Pioneer. Most of their DVDs retail for $30 and only have 3-4 episodes on them. |
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