Forum - View topic
The "Masterpiece."


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Analog_Now



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:21 pm Reply with quote
The perfect show, for me it's what keep me wanting to watch the next episode because I was so excited what was gonna happen next, or the story touched my heart, not only because it was emotional but it was something that made me feel like "this is why I watch Anime." The animation doesn't really have any thing to do with how I would rate a show, it helps but most of all it's the story and how the events turn out, and last but not least the ending. If the ending is superb, and leaves me with a smile, that's what I call a masterpiece.



What are your masterpieces like, is it all about the action or the love or maybe the characters. Maybe you like bloody battles or superpowers, tell me Smile


Last edited by Analog_Now on Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:47 pm Reply with quote
I believe that's why we have this thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 19175
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:57 pm Reply with quote
fighterholic is correct. This thread is redundant given the existence of that thread.

EDIT: I've reconsidered and am going to give the original poster a chance to clarify what he meant. If he does so, and it proves not to be redundant, then I'll allow the thread to continue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 8017
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:55 am Reply with quote
For me a masterpiece:

1. Has to be fairly complex and bold or daring in story, IE do unexpected things and have depth and interesting plot twists.
2. Should have depth of characters and should make me care about them and the things that happen to them. Characters should also grow, change or develop in some way.
3. Should invoke real emotion of some type, happiness, sadness, anxiety, etc. at more than one point when watching.
4. Needs to end conclusively and well without being overly depressing.
5. Should have good technical aspects as well like animation, music, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 7550
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:09 pm Reply with quote
So glad you decided to unlock this on your own, Key, because I was actually planning to send you a PM asking you to do just that. Thankfully I didn't have too. Anime catgrin I can't speak for Analog_Now, but I can say that for me personally calling something I've watched a "masterpiece" doesn't necessarily make it one of my "top 10" favorites. I think many of us have watched titles that some consider absolute dredge, but for some reason it's the title that we just can't stop going back to, it clicks in a way that even the best titles just can't. (And personally, I'm not a big fan of "all time top" lists, my habits, interests, and influences as well as the number of new productions change much too often for any list to define my tastes.) I mentioned in the Toradora! thread - which I'm guessing is where this topic stems from - that I have 350+ titles rated in my "seen all" list, and only 10 of them have received a "masterpiece" rating from me. And of that 10, I think only four would actually qualify in a top 10 favorites list. I love Nadesico, it certainly is one of my favorite titles, maybe even my most favorite, but is it a Masterpiece? Not even close! Yet I keep going back to my tired, old VHS tapes because I love it so much (I so need an upgrade...).

Now that I've said all of that I guess I probably should go ahead and defend my choices. For me personally when it comes to a "masterpiece" I pick shows that change the way I look at a genre or even changes the way we look at art or the production process. For me this selection does just that:

Cashern Sins - Lately there's been a lot of talk about anime remakes and what shows deserve and don't deserve them. Any time before this series premiered if I was asked if this show deserved a second shot at a new audience I probably would have said no, there are other shows much more deserving. I can happily say I was wrong. Now, I'll admit, there are a lot of static frames and reused clips, but the artistry and animation are beautiful. Colors just pop out at you, even in the most dismal of environments it's like watching a dream. The animation and character designs are both smooth and organic, even the robots at their most degraded levels feel alive. Story-wise it never truly loses focus, even if that focus isn't immediately clear. And really, I've never come closer to crying over robots than I have here.

Gankutsuou - Gonzo gets trashed a lot by fans who probably don't know as much about what Gonzo is as they think they do. If there's one thing Gonzo has been big on it's experimentation. For quite some time people knew them for their genuine, though not always good, attempts at making the most of CGI and experimenting with it at every opportunity and proving that it had a place in modern anime. Whether or not they were successful is debatable, but they certainly did try. Years later they began experimenting again with how we look at anime as art, not just animation. In that sense Gankutsuou is truly a masterpiece. It certainly isn't for everyone, for some it's sheer sensory overload, but it's rare to find a show where any one frame of animation can be looked at like an art piece, pick apart and critique every choice of color and pattern, and they did this for 24 episodes! Of course art isn't everything. This re-imagining of the Count of Monte Cristo gives us a futuristic take on the classic literature, and does so by not just integrating the unique visuals and scifi themes, but also recreates a very lively world that still remains true to the original. And of course the muside through out is quite amazing, I'm sure there's more than a few of us that were thankful of being introduced to Jean-Jacques Burnel who's songs and vocals are often beautiful, exciting, and mesmerizing.

Natsume YuujinChou (seasons 1 and 2) - I've mentioned before that 2008 was a truly amazing year for new anime in Japan and if you look at my list here you might notice that four of these titles are from 2008. It would have been very easy for Natsume YuujinChou to fall way under the radar, it was broken into two 13 episode seasons, deals heavily in Japanese mythology and traditions, and doesn't really jump out at you with flashy colors and music. This is a shame because it really is an amazing series that should be watched in heavy doses. That is, if you can handle a lot of heart-felt emotion. I'll admit, it had me on the verge of tears with almost every episode, and not all of them were of sadness. In fact the episode that got to me the most was episode 6 where spoiler[Tsubame declares her love for humans], I was so happy for her that I almost started crying. I was already a fan before that, but after seeing that episode I knew for sure I was watching something really, truly special. But it's not just that, the show can all at the same time be witty, funny, exciting, and even scary, it can blend so many things together and continue to build up from episode to episode. Truly a rare gem, I want a third season badly!

Baccano! - It's hard to really say anything more about Baccano that hasn't already been said pretty much every time people talk about it. It's a show you just have to watch start to finish because it just jumps place to place and time to time fairly rapidly. That sounds confusing, but after a while you realize this is so well written and directed that there's a certain flow to the way scenes are presented and even if you think you've forgotten something it will come back to you because of the overlapping presentation of perspectives. It truly does have a style of its own, not just in the flow, but in the shocking visuals coupled with the writing that, somehow, can make you laugh during a blood bath. It exudes "cool", but few shows can effectively go from laugh riot, to squeamishly shocking, to down right relaxing in the period of minutes.

Castle in the Sky - It's hard to not give a Ghibli title a "masterpiece" rating, but as mentioned before I'm pretty critical. That's not to say the others are bad of course, they just didn't resonate with me like Laputa did. It's a classic that people have been enjoying for over two decades now so there's really not much for me to say to justify it as a "masterpiece" except that it has everything I look for in a Miyazaki movie. I look for art and animation that can hold up the test of time, environments that not only look, but feel real and familiar while being uniquely original, deep, meaningful character interaction, strong character driven stories, and the usual inventive sense of technology be it a "modern" air craft or guardian robot, all in a package that can be enjoyed by just about any demographic. Laputa hit it all for me.

Kure-nai - Another gem from '08. It's hard to pin down this series as one genre, it can rapidly go from action, to slice of life, to drama, to comedy, to romance in the blink of an eye. You get a sense that this series wasn't just written or packaged, but orchestrated. Instead of doing any one thing well it takes a bunch of things, lumps them together, and displays them as one cohesive presentation. It's easy to mistake the show for "lolicon fodder" (a joke that comes up a few times), but Shinkurou's relationship with Murasaki is more like that of a big brother and guardian despite Murasaki's childish romantic ideals (though the manga does allude more towards a possible romantic relationship in their future). It's an exciting series based on both tragic pasts and tragic upbringings that at times can be somewhat inspiring thanks to Shinkurou's outlook on life in-spite of his past. I quickly found myself wanting to know everything about the characters, even the ones that didn't seem outwardly important aside from just mooching off of Shinkurou seemed to be hiding a lot to be explored (and happily confirmed by the manga). I want more, there's room for more!

Spirited Away - Basically take everything I said about Castle in the Sky and put it here as well. It's nice to see something so rooted in Japanese culture get awarded so often and so generously.

Toradora! - I've watched a lot of romantic comedies before, but they so often get bogged down in harem drudge making them just not that fun to watch any more. It's easy lump them together, if you've been reading Answerman in the past weeks then you know just how easy that can be. Then comes Toradora to masterfully turn the entire concept of what we should expect from romantic comedies on its nose. Rather than talking about what is in Toradora, let's talk about what isn't in Toradora. Excessive fanservice - It's very mild, there's a few swimsuit scenes and a couple dream sequences which were for comedy effect ("Coal Guys", oh god), and in fact the most skin we see is on one of the guys. Sex - the word doesn't even come up, it's not even implied. Kissing - there's one kiss scene in the last episode, that's it. Spurting hentai nose bleeds - don't exist. What does exist is an engaging story about friendship and MEANINGFUL relationships. I really had to stress that meaningful part because it's easy to write stories about characters being in a relationship first and then finding out they're incompatible or looking for other things later. However here we've got characters who actually do know what they want from each-other and know they do want to spend the rest of their lives with someone. As expected it can easily lead to a lot of heartbreak. It's a refreshing take on a genre that's often full of fluffy relationships and clingy characters with no feeling. I'm really oversimplifying things, though, the series is amazingly well written from start to finish. Characters are multidimensional, all show multiple sides of themselves beyond what's outwardly presented and even expected. The animation maintains a consistent level of quality, not just setting the mood, but also complimenting it. Bright, sunny happy moments can suddenly pass into a rain shower and become sad or gloomy. A darkened afternoon classroom can host a somber moment while the sunny morning classroom can be the site for sudden sight gags. This is the type of attention to detail , engaging characters, and wholly original style of story telling that makes every episode a joy to watch.

Voices of a Distant Star - In the art world a masterpiece is often described as an individuals greatest achievement. When it comes to individual achievements in anime there are none greater than Makoto Shinkai's masterpiece Voices of a Distant Star. In today's world of huge animation budgets and a workforce of thousands it's amazing to see such an amazing and beautiful piece of work done by one single person. It's a fairly simple story of a long distance relationship taking to the extreme, but the presentation is quite phenomenal. It's almost painful to watch it's so heartbreaking, knowing that the two characters live on their correspondences which quickly become few and far between thanks to the time it takes for the messages to cross space. Of course it's being able to get that type of emotion across in such a compact piece of work is one of its finer points, when it's over you'll swear it was a feature movie. The art is always outstanding and for what it is the animation is as well. Easily a "don't miss" title as well has Shinkai's other professional works which are amazing as well.

*Phew*

Emerje
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
zawa113



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7394
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Hmm, as is, I've only given "masterpiece" ratings to 8 things in both my anime and manga list combined and they are: (anime list) Gurren Lagann, Interstella 5555, Metropolis, Princess Tutu, and Robotech. (manga list) Maison Ikkoku, Banana Fish, and Please Save My Earth. I've given out 10 Excellent ratings in anime and 6 Excellents in my manga (with three of them being Tezuka titles).

So, looking at my list above for masterpiece, I suppose I can come up with some reasonings:
1) They should be capable of impressing me regardless of what genre they are in. I'm not a big mech fan, I still love Gurren Lagann. I hate most all things shojo and magical girl, adored Princess Tutu. I hate love triangles and wishy-washy romance, love Maison Ikkoku. Actually, if they impress me in a genre I more normally hate or don't like as much, it's impressiveness to me is probably more likely to make me rate it higher in some cases. Nothing that I love more than an unexpected adoration on a game or series that I wasn't expecting to like at all.
2) They should be experimental. There's nothing wrong with doing everything right, but it should probably be expanded upon at the same time. Gurren Lagann and Princess Tutu both start off as shopping lists of cliches and ideas ever so clearly taken from other places. It then takes every single one of and redefines them. I'd practically made a list for both of them based on the first couple of episodes only to cross about 95% of them off by the end. Neither were particularly experimental in animation (although Princess Tutu was in music), but they were in story and cliches. Interstella 5555 also falls here, taking a whole album and making an actually good AMV out of it with a simple yet effective story was downright brilliant. Not too creative in character designs (Stella looks like just about every other Leiji Matsumoto girl except with blue skin), but doesn't do them wrong either.
3) I should certainly like it. There's not too much to elaborate on here, I shouldn't have a masterpiece listed that I cannot stand.
4) For me, it should have fairly good rewatch/reread value. Odds are I'll want to look over it again sometime, it should stand the test of my time to re-view it.
5) It should be something that reminds me why I got into anime and still like it to begin with. Most of my excellents also fall into this as well honestly. Planetes, Cromartie (both manga and anime), Baccano!, GTO, Fantastic Children, yep they all made me remember why I love anime, but I didn't quite rate them masterpieces. I think they were lacking one final element with me that would make me unable to describe their awesome with words, but yeah, I can use words for all of them. Entry implies "masterpiece-equisite beyond word" and I definatly take the seriously. Also, Fantastic Children's dub is just horrendously bad for a non-4Kids production. Masterpieces remind me just as much as excellents, just more so.
6) Good writing . The series should never cop-out on me. I shouldn't feel that any of the plot points came out of a random selective orifice of the writers because they were drunk or something. One bad writing point won't make me necessarily hate it, but good writing is very important to me. Good writing is more important than music or art, if I could replace all the characters with talking sticks figures and keep all the dialogue the same and still care for everything immensely, the writers have done a good job.
7) Characters. I should probably note that when I said "Robotech", I meant the Macross saga the most. I don't think Minmei is quite as annoying as everyone says, I found her easy enough to ignore, it was mostly her voice more than her character. The major characters should make me want to look at them and follow them, be as original as they can, and this should be regardless of artwork or subject matter. Banana Fish got me on this one, gangs in NYC in the 80's? I don't care. Extremely good characters? Yes please! If the story itself is average in idea or I don't care, the characters should be able to carry the story no matter how average it should be.
8) Good Story, I can't just let the characters carry the whole thing, the story should be incredibly competent as well. If it's going to be ho-hum romantic comedy, it should at least do it correctly. If the characters don't quite hold up like in Interstella 5555 (due to time constraints and story telling style here), then either the story itself or the way it is told should more than make up for it. But as in 7, the characters should still be competent and not a mangled mess either. Basically, 7 and 8 should go hand in hand and be able to complement each other without stepping on each other's feet and tripping. In the cast of Princess Tutu, in which all the characters are quite literally bound to the story, they better be bound to something good. And Mytho's character was kinda bland (for justified reasons, but still), but the story was able to carry him. For Fakir, Rue, and Duck though, they were all competent characters whom helped the story carry itself while the story helped carry them equally. Good example of perfect harmony between characters and story for me.
9) some extra factor that I can't quite put my finger on. I think that's the case with Metropolis, it certainly does everything else competently enough so it's not exactly faulting or leaking anywhere. Perhaps it's just better than the sum of its parts that does it. It is certainly important, the whole thing should fit together beautifully for sure.
10) I should feel that the series got done what it wanted to get done, like it left no loose ends for me. Metropolis finished what it wanted to do in its movie length well. It should never be biting off more than it can chew and leave me with more questions than answers. Not that things can't be left a little open, Maison Ikkoku and Princess Tutu certainly did that, but they accomplished their goals of spoiler[Yusaku marrying Kyoko in Maison Ikkoku] and spoiler[stopping the story and restoring Mytho's heart in Princess Tutu]. It left things a little open for fanfics, but it didn't leave a bunch of infuriating holes at the end. And it shouldn't be the type of open ending that's clearly meant to be filled by a sequel that may never happen.
11) They should make me feel a mix of emotion, all very clearly and strongly. On my masterpiece list, Gurren Lagann, Princess Tutu, and Banana Fish all did the rare in making me actually cry. But I also experienced joy, laughter, feeling legitimately sorry for characters. Metropolis might be the only one that didn't evoke all feelings, but I still call it my favorite anime movie ever. To be fair, I basically cried on Gurren Lagann because it ended and I didn't want it to. PT & BF were more legit. At the very least, they should make me feel something.

Things that do not matter to me:
1) artwork. Robotech's art work doesn't exactly hold up, but it's so minor when compared to good writing that I don't care. Please Save My Earth's first several volumes are kinda ugly late 80's manga artwork, but I still got into it easily. I think manga is more subject to this as a long running series' artwork can change over time. It's not that production values shouldn't be attempted at all, I just don't care that much.

if i think of anymore, i'll write em later...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:33 pm Reply with quote
Masterpiece. Geez, such a simple word but complex to answer. Even in reading the other replies, it's still not easy.

Emotion.
I think that sums it up. A series could be the best in plot, artwork, and direction, but without emotion, it's nothing more than another cartoon.

There was a long span between anime purchases and the recent DVDs I have showed me just how much of it has changed in two years. Most every one I've watched so far has been focused on emotion, even given plot second billing.

I just finished Elemental Gelade and I loved it. Masterpiece? You betcha. Will it ever rank as #1? Ha! Yeah, not by standards of anime fans in general.
Wink

The show was fun to watch and I sat there rooting all the way, feeling bad when things didn't go right, and felt good through the whole series.

Fruits Basket was another fun show.

As I review people's "top 10" lists, I try to get an idea of what might be interesting to pick up next. But when I read the reviews, it's hard to determine just how much emotion a show will instill.

Doesn't mean I'll ignore it, but it puts a high "risk" factor when deciding on what series to pick up next.

Artwork also comes into play, but not as much as it used to. With so much computer use today, most anime looks good.

Story seems to have little influence on me anymore. Sitting through Sister Princess and Azumanga Daioh proved this. Neither has a story. If it did, it went way over my head.

Well, I guess that about explains my definition of a simple word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:10 pm Reply with quote
To be quite honest, I don't think it's possible for me to narrow down what a "masterpiece" is using any strict, specific set of criteria with universal application to any particular anime fan's situation. Each person will have a different opinion about this matter and some, I'm certain, will be more or less demanding about what a masterpiece implies.

But generally speaking, for me a masterpiece will excel in most of its constituent areas and will give the viewer (or reader) the intellectual and/or emotional feeling that something unique -in content, execution or influence- has been accomplished with very few, if any, major flaws.

This may seem vague, but it's probably the most sincere definition I could come up with.

I am rather stingy and won't give that rating freely, however, and more often than not I'll prefer to call something excellent instead of forcing myself to consider it as a masterpiece, regardless of what popular or critical opinion may want to indicate.

At the same time, I am quite willing to consider something as a masterpiece even if I may not personally appreciate one or more aspects of the work involved. Case in point: Makoto Shinkai is brilliant and he has, in fact, created masterpieces, but I'm not his greatest fan in the world and sincerely wish he'd try to mix things up a bit, if you know what I mean.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zawa113



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7394
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:20 pm Reply with quote
Actually, it's topics like this and "Worst ever" that make me reconsider my ratings on any given series. I might bump Planetes and Fantastic Children up to masterpiece, since I was already borderline on it, but not until I've re-watched them (and rewatched Fantastic Children in sub), and I might bump Metropolis down to Excellent. It'll still be a personal favorite, but might just put it a bit lower on the scale...more likely to do that first. I admit I rather have something against giving "masterpiece" ratings to movies, maybe I just feel that TVs and OVAs and longer and can get more stuff done? Like they have more time to develop a great story and characters? Probably along those lines.
I'll probably rewatch Planetes first, since it's been longer since I saw it, but considering that they both have highly supported characters in the tourney, not a bad idea, and they are both amazing series.

*edit* yep, today was the type of day where i looked puzzled at my rating of masterpiece for metropolis, just bumped it down to excellent. I do that every do often admittantly, look and go "wait, what? i rated it what?" then go change it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:35 pm Reply with quote
classicalzawa wrote:
I admit I rather have something against giving "masterpiece" ratings to movies, maybe I just feel that TVs and OVAs and longer and can get more stuff done?

I myself only give the masterpiece label to films. The story doesn't get broken into parts, and stands alone stronger than an episodic anime: One sees the full story continuously, instead of interspersing it with credit sequences and one's everyday life. As such I feel the quality is better concentrated when one considers the running time.
I've only voted three things as a masterpiece though. My favourite of which you have alas just voted down.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Cloe
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2728
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:57 pm Reply with quote
A lot of people here cite specific criteria in order to qualify anime for a "masterpiece" rating--it has to meet standards for writing, characters, art, etc. In my case, though, it's more about whether or not the anime in question is greater than the sum of its parts. I tend to be very stingy with the "masterpiece" rating--even with anime titles I enjoy immensely and recommend to everyone, my default rating is "Excellent" or "Very Good." For something to qualify as "Masterpiece" to me, it has to deeply affect me on both a visceral and intellectual level. My picks for Masterpiece (currently at 17/466) tend to be emotional ones, titles that make me think and laugh and dream, that impact me in the same way great works of art and film and literature do. They don't necessarily measure up to any sort of pre-defined criteria, but they tend to be visually daring and usually a little ambiguous or experimental in their storytelling. So, for me, it's more of a gut reaction than a drawn-out thought process based on weighing individual strengths and weaknesses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Analog_Now



Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:
So glad you decided to unlock this on your own, Key, because I was actually planning to send you a PM asking you to do just that. Thankfully I didn't have too. Anime catgrin I can't speak for Analog_Now,


I did pm Key Smile, I was a little puzzled of why my the thread was closed because I didn't ask what show is a masterpiece and then it was unlocked. Thank you Key
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
~~EpiC~~



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 243
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Glad this was re-opened.
Going to agree with a lot of what other people have said but for the sake of discussion.

1) Story/Plot - One of the biggest things for me is the story. Not only am I looking for a very plausible sequence of events, I'm looking for refreshing, smart, different and not cliche sequence. Experimental. Good writing is a huge must.

2) Characters - What is the biggest driving factor to anything? Well the characters. Creative and new characters. Realistic ones, ones that are 3-D and round, the if used correctly stock characters can be great too. Can they evoke an emotional response? etc..

3) Music - A huge one for me. Music for me can create a perfect mood. It will amplify or even create emotion. It can drive the action and improve it. It sparks the imagination, and can touch the soul.

4) Animation - The least important of the three most often, but sometimes it can be the most important. To me numbers 3 and 4 can easily break or make a masterpiece, just like if you have bad cinementagrophy your film will break and weaken. Animation is a way to show everyone else the total sum of your imagination. At the same time, if everything else is amazing, it will not effect is as much.

5) Replay value - If evertyhing else is right, it will do this. Too me, its not so much if I will rewatch them again (I barely ever rewatch anything twice, unless I have forgotten it), its more of a matter of how long I will think about it, if it will make me think. Thinking about philosiphical questions are, Do I want to visit this world, feel it is splendid, what happens to the characters afterwards, etc.. Things like that.


Let's see if your looking to see what I've rated as masterpiece they are: Berserk, El Hazard 1, Gankutsuo, Grave of the Fireflies, Gunslinger Girls, Honey and Clover (1 and 2), Haibane Renmei, Kino's Journey, Mind Game, Suzimaya, Mellenium Actress, Monster, Mushi-Shi, Paranoia Agent, Perfect Blue, Rahxephon, Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal, Lain, Toradora!, Twelve Kingdoms and Voices of a Distant Star (22 altogether as Masterpieces).

I put out why's on my top 15 best list, but hvaent' gotten around to finish em all yet or really explain deeper.

Though I'm contemplating changing Paranoia, Gunslinger Girls, Grave, El Hazard, and Suzimaya down to excellent (I haven't watched some in while, so I will have to revisit).

I dish out excellents a lot to anime who I feel were close to being a masterpiece (or rather, if a few things were changed, could've have been a masterpiece) and a few that I just loved to much to put lower lol (changing that though).

Edit: Added something I forgot to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mylene



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:55 pm Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
They don't necessarily measure up to any sort of pre-defined criteria...


I don't really have any defined criteria myself. For me, much of it is an emotional response to the anime in question. When I turn off that DVD, how do I feel? Can I find the words to describe it? Can I truly pick out exactly what made this anime so amazing? If not, then it's well on its way to being a "masterpiece." If I can describe what makes it great, then it lacks that special something that takes it to the next level, the almost ethereal quality that leaves me in haze when I finish, still drinking in and emoting over what was seen.

There are really very few shows that have done that for me (I think I have 3 masterpiece ratings) to that extent, and I think that's the way it should be. For me, there needs to be this certain, amazing, indescribable essence to a show for it to go to the next level. Does that mean I love my masterpiece anime better than my non-masterpiece anime? Definitely not. Sailor Moon will always be my favorite show. However, in terms of quality and that certain indescribable 'something,' it doesn't really hold a candle to, say, Millennium Actress.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
zawa113



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7394
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
classicalzawa wrote:
I admit I rather have something against giving "masterpiece" ratings to movies, maybe I just feel that TVs and OVAs and longer and can get more stuff done?

I myself only give the masterpiece label to films. The story doesn't get broken into parts, and stands alone stronger than an episodic anime: One sees the full story continuously, instead of interspersing it with credit sequences and one's everyday life. As such I feel the quality is better concentrated when one considers the running time.
I've only voted three things as a masterpiece though. My favourite of which you have alas just voted down.

Yet another interesting difference of opinions! Metropolis is still my favorite anime movie of all time, masterpiece or not, and it's probably still my favorite Tezuka based anime (although the Metropolis manga sure isn't, it's completely different). And excellent still isn't an exceedingly rare rating from me that goes to undeserved series. I personally just prefer that series can just fit more story in, even if they're annoyingly disturbed by intros. But Banana Fish has a unique style that isn't divided into chapters, just volumes for most likely publishing purposes. It does make it hard to put down, it feels like a 19 volume straight through movie in manga form where the only chapter division is at the end for a before and after story. Not a single page break for artwork anywhere (a few at the end of some of the volumes though, but not in the middle). And Please Save My earth is similar, there are a few art page breaks early on, but they gradually fade and they still don't announce chapters.
So it's not that I don't necessarily not like a stripped down non-stop style with minimal interruptions, but I'd rather have the interruptions personally and have the series be longer than movie length. But to be fair, I don't think I've re-watched Metropolis in over a year, been meaning to watch an anime movie again lately, I'll make it the next one and reconsider. I see nothing wrong with being indecisive about the rating, it'll always be difficult to try and put how much you like it into a rating system. Some days you'll love something and remember why, some days you won't. I usually consider both excellent and masterpiece to be at the top of my favorites lists and easy recommends and overall fantastic series, I'm probably just trying to be stingy with my ratings or something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group