Forum - View topicWhy online streaming will fail big time!
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BorgmanJayce
 Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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I know this will probably sound quite a bit controversial, but at the same time, I hope that ANN and the various distributors of anime, both American and Japanese will take note of what I have to say.
As a Brit who's been a big fan of anime for over 20 years and has seen a wide range of anime from Shonen to Moe and inbetween, I like to watch the latest unlicensed stuff via fansubs and when I can, always buy the American-licensed releases on import especially when they've got no chance in Hell of getting UK releases! [Kannagi, I'm looking at you in particular!] When it comes to fansubs, I'm a huge supporter as it allows me to check out if a particular anime is going to be good or bad before it gets licensed. If there's one thing I hate though, it's the fact that when Japanese companies license English-versions of anime for streaming, they don't seem to think of the bigger picture and consider other markets who would love to see free anime like the UK, South Africa and Australasia. Amongst the companies who are particularly guilty are Bandai Entertainment and Viz even though they have European divisions in the form of Beez and Viz Europe respectively, With Funi, until recently, we in the UK could watch a lot of their anime online without problems but for some reason, we're blocked now although I believe they're trying to fix the problem and don't even bloody get me started about Crunchyroll and how they're trying to get the rest of us outside North America to sign up to their shitty service when three-thirds of their shows aren't available outside there including the really good stuff as well as the Asian dramas plus they have some stuff which is viewable in the Republic of Ireland but not in Northern Ireland. As for Kadokawa, at least we can watch subbed Haruhi over here which is a great thing! As for Hulu, I think that will fail big time in the UK as there's not going to be enough material to please us here [and most of it will be stuff that we'll have already seen in any case!]. It's like this, if the anime distributors; especially the Japanese ones are reading this, I have a suggestion for you guys! How about having two seperate sets of licenses! One that covers the Japanese-only market and one that covers all non-Japanese markets, that way everybody is happy at the end of the day! In the meantime, it's bloody odd that I can't watch Mysterious Cities of Gold even though the English version was shown in the UK first and Shadow Chronicles is legally available in the UK as well... If my idea is successful, please make payment payable to... 
On a more serious note, I know things will probably never change as long as the Japanese production companies aren't willing to see the bigger picture and us Brits and other people outside North America will be forced to use other means to get our anime fix but it's worth it at the end of the day... |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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So...why does this mean 'online streaming failing big time'?
I get that it ignores non-R1 countries, but isn't that just the way it's always been? The UK has always gotten little to no anime made available and so the fans there have always relied largely on fansubs and to a lesser extent, imports. I don't see any reason that needs to change. The industry got by just fine with things like that for quite a while. You have to keep in mind that most of these companies are Region 1 distributors. It would be nice if they could take advantage of the lack of any distribution companies in other regions, but the truth is it often isn't going to be practical. First and foremost, the R1 companies need to profit from region 1. If they can do that via streaming, it will be a success. |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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Why don't you complain to the European Region 2 companies?
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Don't hold your breath for any monies, because your idea is flawed. Let's review your statement about the "two" licenses. Can you imagine what the cost of the second would be? Do you really think various countries are going to pool their resources together to fund the license? Just imagine what it'll take to get a series released, especially if one of those countries decides it doesn't want to do it but the others do! Ouch. Licensing is what will cause streaming to fail in the long run. Sites hosting the content simply won't be able to afford the licensing costs in order to survive. This will have a severe impact on the availability of content. Your remarks against Hulu are unjustified as you're placing blame on the wrong party. This doesn't surprise me, given most people do this. Please review Hulu's blogs regarding their content offering. Note, specifically, how it's them who are apologizing for content owner decisions forcing them to comply with their offering. This is going to continue for quite some time until content owners wake up and realize they can't take a current model outside the internet and apply it within it. It stuns me these industries are excusing the very internet as the distribution platform in order to replace it with their own. Online streaming has another caveat which has nothing to do with content owners, but with ISPs. It seems several are toying with the idea of going to a "pay for what you use" model, removing the unlimited platform people have come to expect. Streaming video is rising and is accounting for a larger take on bandwidth by ISPs. Hulu alone is posting a larger audience every month. Add in the Netflix viewers, etc., it's not hard to fathom why ISPs are now after this new bandwidth cap model. It can be very lucrative for them financially. A recent report shows internet streaming has increased 20% since last month! That's a huge number! As more and more people are discovering the new way to view their shows, it's not surprising to see other areas affected. Even US television stations are facing hard times, as advertisers are realizing the potential of supplying the streaming site, rather than costly TV broadcasting, as a new outlet. Personally, I don't see streaming as failing at all. In fact, I expect to see it flourish. But not all sites will garner success during this rise, as some simply can't afford to host licensed content and expect people to pay. Networks are now offering their shows online through their own websites. The "Hulus" of the internet world are in competition with these sites. NBC, as an example, offers a sharing model with Hulu such that they receive revenue from both sites. What will survive, however, are those "illegal" sites, as they disregard the entire model altogether. While the "Hulu" sites of the internet slowly die due to licensing, the other sites will remain. That should be the largest warning to these content owners, but sadly, it's not as they once again demand more money on the idiotic "pay to view" model. |
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BorgmanJayce
Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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(To Petrified Jello) I can understand where you and the others are coming from seeing as you're lucky enough to have a all-you-can-eat buffet [to put it as an analogy], but how about this as an example - Kurokami is currently available both on YouTube in the rest of the world for the most part and is also available on other streaming sites, but for those who are unlucky enough not to be in the correct region, we're not allowed to see whether it's a good anime to buy when it comes out on DVD or not.
At least GDH-Gonzo and as I mentioned, Kadokawa have the right idea when it comes to streaming anime in that their productions are available to people from all over the world. With Funi, I know they'll get their issues sorted out and I'll hopefully be able to watch Nerima Daikon Brothers online one day. It's bad enough the R2 market is as small enough as it is [although we've always had one up on you guys with the Ghibli releases! *evil laugh*] and I know my idea is a crazy one, but I still say at the end of the day, as long as the makers of various shows aren't willing to see the bigger picture in that we live in a global society and that they should adjust to it accordingly, then online streaming is going to definitely fail big time... I know this is slightly unrelated but ironically enough, I can watch the latest One Piece as well as Super Hero Time on KeyholeTV without any problems... Just some food for thought there. Now if you'll excuse me, I just need to set up Hotspot Shield to go and hopefully watch some anime on here... |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8204 Location: England, UK |
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Didn't most, if not all, of these stream sites use to be illegal fansub up loader sites? Historically if the poacher, who became a gameskeeper lost his job as the gameskeeper, he naturally returned to poaching again, to what he knew best, unless he was transported, or hanged. Samething will happen to CR, or Hulu, or who ever else is now the legal new way. They may not have the same name on the logo, if they fail, but it will be the same people. Only the ISP's could stop that, but not for long. Fortunately for them transporting, or hanging poachers stopped long ago.
The R2 market isn't that small, but we can't buy what isn't available in R2 subbed, or dubbed. We aren't small be choice. The Japanese think that R1 is their biggest market, but I don't think they realise just how much of that was exports to other countries. It's funny how they are so frightened about reverse importation, but never give imports to other countries a thought at all. I will never support fansubs, but I also don't want to have to import R1 if they can licence for our R2. I am being forced to import if I want anime legally. At least that way they still get their money after exchange, and at the end of the day isn't that what they are in business for? 
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Licensing in action. This is why I have no problem with fan sub sites, especially for people like you. You can say they're license free. Not playing by the rules, but then again, look how the rules treat decent customers. It makes me sick. |
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Youkai Warrior
 Posts: 505 Location: Sarayashiki |
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If you're complaining because you want legit DVDs I can understand where you're coming from. I never liked the idea of streaming, and I'm not a fan of fansubs. For me, DVD is the way to go. Have you ever thought of importing legit DVDs? I believe the Right Stuf will ship to the U.K. Here's they're website.
http://www.rightstuf.com They have anime DVDs English dubbed and subtitled. All are released by legit companies like Bandai, Viz and Funimation. The Right Stuf does not sell bootlegs, so shop with ease. |
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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Pft, I'm wondering if Mr. Warrior here is a paid rep of rightstuf...
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'll try to get this straight here.
So I'll liken this to something that everyone should be familiar with: Games. They all have rules thateveryone follows to have fun and entertainments and can teach life lessons like Monopoly for example. As what I'm reading is something to a situation like this: I'm behind in Monopoly and I feel like I'm not getting what I want or loosing out. Because I'm not getting what I want then it's okay for me to "bend"/break the rules and get what I want. Now how trustworthy is that? Should person who would follow the rules even if their situation is bleak or they feel like they are not getting what they want or the person who says it's okay the break the rules. See this is what I say to you BorgmanJayce, that you already have all the tools legally available to you if your willing to put in the work for it, to invest in your idea yourself or yourself and several others. If you believe in your idea and it's amazing profit-making capabilities, why are you waiting for our R1 industry to do it? When you could form your own R2 company and take Europe by storm with your "Great" idea? I feel this is more about justifying what you do for youself by breaking the rules then any sort of "great" idea. Here a new slang word to learn and then get over. As that's what your doing and participating in. slacktivism: 1. The act of participating in obviously pointless activities as an expedient alternative to actually expending effort to fix a problem. Signing an email petition to stop rampant crime is slacktivism. Want to really make your community safer? Get off your ass and start a neighborhood watch! 2. The search for the ultimate feel-good that derives from having come to society's rescue without having had to actually gets one's hands dirty or open one's wallet. It's slacktivism that prompts us to want a join a boycott of designated gas companies or eschew buying gasoline on a particular day rather than reduce our personal consumption of fossil fuels by driving less. |
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BorgmanJayce
Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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Finally! Somebody who knows where I'm coming from when I'm talking about the subject of online streaming! I agree with Mohawk52 about the fact that the Japanese haven't thought that the R2 market has just as much potential as the R1 market especially as a lot of anime, both modern and classic have been shown in continential Europe over the years and to this day, there are a lot of conventions dedicated to anime and manga which feature guests like CLAMP, the creators of Death Note, Tite Kubo, etc. He's also right about how a lot of R1 sales are actually exports to other countries including the UK and of course, Japan! Don't forget the fact that a lot of you guys also import some of our releases that aren't available over here such as the uncensored Blue Dragon releases from Manga and the various Ghibli releases that aren't available in North America; especially Tales of Earthsea... Youkai Warrior; you probably didn't read my opening post as I said clearly that most of my collection are R1 imports that haven't been released over here including my signed copy of the FMA movie SE, Gravion Zwei box set, the Special Editions of Ai Yori Aoshi: Enishi with the figurines and St Seiya volumes 1-3 with the box for Volume 1 which is signed by the English voice actor for Phoenix Ikki. Yes, I also know of RightStuf as that's where I mainly get most of my anime from! 
LordRedhand, I can understand where you're coming from but I, along with quite a few other people don't believe in playing by the rules when it comes to watching restricted anime which is why we're forced to do what we do. And yes, I've heard of slacktivism! 
If I could form my own R2 company then I would... Anybody willing to give me a few million pounds to help me start it up?[/sarcasm] |
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Youkai Warrior
Posts: 505 Location: Sarayashiki |
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I'm Miss Warrior thankyouverymuch. And no, I am not a paid representative of Right Stuf. But I really like that webstore so I advertise it.
I must've misread your post. Sorry about that. It's nice to know that you're not one of those fans who spend large quantities of time on the internet watching anime. |
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BorgmanJayce
Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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No need to apologise at all as I always buy official releases of previously fansubbed anime when I can and download stuff that will never get a release officially like Borgman and Shurato.
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Maryohki
 Posts: 526 |
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Um...no. This is not how licensing works. The American distribution companies have no obligation to serve you or anyone else outside of R1, because that's what their license covers; R1. For a series to be released in a different region, they'd need a separate license for that region. that's just how it is.
And no, streaming is not going to "fail" because it isn't catering to the UK. =/ |
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BorgmanJayce
Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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FYI, I do know how licensing works and I guess that people outside North America are lucky that we're not banned from importing anime DVD's from the USA. I'm just saying that you North American fans should be grateful that you have a wider choice especially considering quite a few of you always whine at the fact that you have to import certain R2 anime releases from the UK such as various Ghibli releases; especially "Tales of Earthsea", so why shouldn't people from other parts of the world, especially Europe be allowed to complain at the unfairness of the lack of quality anime releases. At the end of the day, I still believe [and nobody will change my opinion] that streaming anime is a dead duck until the various licensors consider taking other regions into account by doing deals with various regional licensors. As for pay-to-download, don't even get me started on that, especially as the choice that's available on iTunes UK in a lot of cases cost a lot more than the DVD releases! |
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