Forum - View topicI hate mediocrity.
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wanderlustking
 Posts: 449 Location: Bozeman, Montana |
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I started thinking recently about the kinds of shows that make it into my "all time worst" category. Shows like Naruto, Kanon, Bleach, Dragon Ball Z, or Inuyasha, which in my opinion aren't even that bad. You see, I don't hate these shows because they are bad; I hate them because, while not good (in my opinion), they are just good enough to be insanely popular. I find this is true for other media as well, for instance I don't hate The Twilight Saga because it sucks, I hate it because it doesn't suck enough to keep millions of fan girls from loving the damn thing.
In contrast, I don't really care when I watch shows like Agent Aika: Lace in Space, because I know that of the small group of people that watch it, most will agree that its crap. Its like complaining about a Uwe Boll movie. Everyone knows they suck. I'm worried about this mentality though; because to me, it seems only a few short steps away from the hipster mentality of "they're popular, now they such." Anyone have any thoughts on the issue? What anime do you hate, even though you know its really not that bad? |
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dageiver
 Posts: 39 |
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I liked the first two arcs of Bleach. I liked Naruto up until the exam arc ended around ep 70-80.
I know this is going to sound narky but no one is forcing you to watch a specific anime. Different people like different anime, that's cool. Also lots of the anime you mentioned is directed at children. Children are less likely to be able to watch every episode of an anime (think morning before school etc) so it makes sense to buy in to a longer running series with characters they know well so they can pick up whats going on any time they watch it. A lot of this hate towards anime you are talking about is because people feel their judgements are absolute so they take offense when other people disagree and have the 'audacity' to enjoy the anime in question. |
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wanderlustking
Posts: 449 Location: Bozeman, Montana |
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Yes, it did sound narky, but whatever. I really wasn't looking to make any sort of comment about the anime I don't like, and I realize no one is forcing me to watch it. My point wasn't to bitch about the few anime I mentioned, or to have people defend them; it was to wander about the possibility that I'm directing my hate at the wrong shows, for the wrong reasons.
Hell, I liked the first fifty or so episodes of Bleach too, but that's not what I'm talking about. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I do despise the Anime that are just good enough - at least, without the benefit of hindsight - to string me along with promises of quality, without ever truly delivering. Many of them are bad, but quite a number are just plain mediocre.
I partially disagree with your view that the shows you mentioned are popular just because they are good enough. First of all, the four Shounen shows listed are/were popular because they applied a proven formula to a certain audience that laps it up; males under the age of twenty. Of course there are many other demographics that do watch such shows (InuYasha had a strong female fan base I believe), but the foundation, the bedrock of the support is from young males. Secondly, especially for Bleach and InuYasha, they were good/decent at the start but then their quality spiralled out of control with endless filler and plots that never seemed to go anywhere. On average their quality is quite dastardly - even Naruto's fans have coined the term "Plot no Jutsu" - but people remember the good old days when the show was good and keep watching in vain in the hope that it can rise again once more. I'm speaking from personal experience here; Bleach toyed with my affections and broke my heart. Last edited by dtm42 on Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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Wouldn't an excessively vocal and insufficiently mature fanbase add to the negative image you have of those shows, to some extent? You can't be held at fault for not liking a show, then hearing people drool over it, and getting even more annoyed at the whole thing.
That said, there seems to be a definite link between a show being mainstream/casual, and (perceived as) mediocre. I know that definitely influences me, it's not some kind of hipster mentality. Like, I would wager that about as many people watched the Big 3 and Evangelion. Does that make NGE popular? In a way... but not casual. |
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vastoceans
 Posts: 107 |
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Sounds a bit like the hipster thing to me. I'm not really a huge fan of any of the series' you mentioned, but I can see their good points and the positives they bring to the market. The shonen fare especially; Naruto, Bleach and Inuyasha all had pretty strong beginnings and initial character development and brought in masses of new anime fans. They weren't reinventing the wheel, but what series does?
I guess I can see where you'd find all the Narutards and stuff worrisome or annoying, much like the Twilight girls... but honestly, if it draws new blood and money into anime fandom, what's the problem? It's great for us whether it leads to new licenses or more fans. If you read that and thought "oh great, just what we need... more stupid casual fans" then it's definitely a hipster attitude. There's nothing wrong with that if that's the case... it's obviously human nature when you consider that you see that attitude in just about every medium from sports and music to animation and movies. I'd be willing to bet that there are a ton of people on these forums that got their start with one of the insanely popular series' you mentioned and have since expanded on their anime tastes and are more than capable of holding a competent conversation. Hell, I started with Slayers and NGE. I could take or leave either of them now (especially the highly overrated NGE), but I'm still thankful they opened my eyes to this bit of subculture. |
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wanderlustking
Posts: 449 Location: Bozeman, Montana |
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My last shred of dignity lies solely in the well known adage, "if you know your a hipster, your not a hipster." I know I am much more critical of popular works than they usually deserve, but at leas I'm willing to acknowledge that fact. I'm pretty sure most people do this on some level, and I know first hand that it is a standard that some people actively enforce.
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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There's a difference between DBZ, Naruto, Inuyasha etc and EVA. While most of the fans of one of them admit that their favourite show is pure entertainment the fans of EVA try to convict that there's hiper-super-superior to everything. It has a wisdom of heaven, power of Valars and solution of the Da Vinci Code. Like Elfen Lied's fans who never watch this show because of nudity and violence, but because of the ultimate truth about humanity (me:meh!)
Back to DBZ and co: why are they "nod good"? Entertaining is a kind of art and a formula that keeps tons of people watching it for years should be appreciated. For last months I've been searching for shows that can help me relax and prove some emotions that wouldn't stick my mind for long. Thank goddess for "mediocre" series that made it possible |
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naninanino
 Posts: 680 |
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I try to not let incoherent things like fanbases, hype and popularity affect my judgement as they have nothing to do with the actual quality of the show. Nevertheless, these are things that will inevitably make me aware of the shows existance and as an anime fan I try to keep up with the state of the industry.
The last time I was sucked in was the case of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. I know that it isn't that bad of a show, but after all the hype I was left... not angry, but disappointed. Then again, everything is filled with hype these days. It would be best to wait a 1-2 years before checking out new big productions. |
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ailblentyn
 Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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I think disposable, just-good-enough rubbish has an important niche in any entertainment ecosystem. Some people use those things to develop their taste, and some people just enjoy them for what they are: easy to watch, and fairly undemanding.
Also, I do think we in America sometimes expect too much from anime as far as universal artistic value and appeal. Sometimes a shounen series really is just a shounen series (naming no names!), and need not be inflicted on discerning adults. (By the way, EVA is hyper-super-superior to just about everything. Except Gunbuster.) 
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Shenl742
Posts: 1531 |
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More or less describes my feelings for One Piece. It's put on such a pedastal that it seems people just want to ignore it's innumarable flaws, just like DBZ (which as far as I'm concerned, it's the successor too). That the fact that you'll be lucky to find ONE moment of brilliance of out of every 100 episodes/chapters, while at the same time you have yo wade through tons of lame comedy involving food, character interactions which are composed about 90% of people screaming at eachother, and criminally overwrout, nonsensical melodrama.
It has a spark of charm and a sense of adventure, and a lot of imagination, but it just wastes it all. It's depressing |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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It is common for other consumers to be appreciative of the works ones own tastes do not accommodate, and hence to outnumber one significantly. This is the phenomenon you claim to be causing your grief, and I wish to quiz you about how you choose to channel this dissatisfaction: Why is it that you hate the shows themselves, and not the broader state of affairs whereby the shows are over-appreciated? Surely, these less discerning masses bear as much of a responsibility for this phenomenon as the shows themselves. I'd suggest that the object of your disapproval needs to be broadened somewhat, for you disapprove not of a single aesthetic "thing" but of a grand social activity. |
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kiddtic
 Posts: 309 Location: Kitwe, Zambia |
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Well I get what the OP is trying to convey, I do agree that long series can tend to lose their quality and become "mediocre"
I belive Overall quality of such shows should not be judged by thier fillers or the like. I hear lots of people say I loved Bleach up until they spoiler[saved Rukia], the Bount arc ruined it for me etc. Also its hard for some fans to accept that a certain show that has been hyped actually is good. I saw Evangelion last year that was after the first Rebild was released, so it had a Legendary status of Hype. That didn't deter me from accepting the fact that the show is indeed Awesome after I watched it myself. The whole "its cool to hate on the popular stuff" attitude is very common in this fanbase. It would be better if we gave everything a chance before just dismsissing it as trash or watching something with the mindset that it is trash. A good example of this would be K-on!. I only knew about moe after I joined this forum and it got(gets) a lot of hate. I had to brush all that aside and just dive right into it. OMG I loved it best show of last year it was, had I listened to the bad criticism I wouldnt have experienced that. That said there are shows that are mediocre, most are to be honest but it all deepends on the individual. No onee wants to watch stuff that isnt great but good enough its like going to a strip club with no so good looking performers...its still a strip club though (bad example forgive me) From my personal experience I have found that most shows with a hype behind it are actually good for what they are meant to convey, I am yet to be dissapointed. |
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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you are bad and you should feel bad
those poor poor hyper popular multi-million dollar merchandising machines will never recover from your unfair judgement. I totally understand where you are coming from. When you put stuff as "worst ever" its usually less because it is actually the worst ever and more you want to send a message (subconsciously of course). So it is kind of reasonable in the case of these popular/overrated shows, you want to let it be known that it is not in fact "teh bestest" like so many have said. so you declare "$&#@ this piece of garbage! It is not teh bestest now shut up!". All you are doing is rating them more harshly because they are popular, I doubt you would have enjoyed them any more if they had been unpopular. And thats what really counts in the end, as long as you are not missing out on potential enjoyment and or happy happy good times I wouldn't worry about it. Also, hey everybody he didn't say anything about NGE! I don't know how that business got started but thats a dangerous anime to start calling overrated out of the blue. And um wanderlustking YOU'RE A TOOL, not me. I'm a nice guy...  
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Darksorrow29
Posts: 412 Location: United States |
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Just to comment on Kidditc's statement, it's not just long series, it's usually long shonen series. Even besides the filler arcs, production value (i think someone mentioned htis earlier) is a very important part as well. Compare the early episodes of Bleach in music and animation compared to now.
It all boils down to target demographic though. Most people at a younger age, or at least to my belief, do not care as much for production value when it comes to anime / shonen titles. At the same token though for such a long series it's literally impossible to keep up a high production value. Man... imagine if K-ON! had bad animation or was about boys? Obviously people are free to like whatever they want. I think what kills people about "mediocre" shows is there are a lot of times where the fan base for these shows have not seen much other anime. It maybe frusterating to some anime fans when a casual fan says "omg naruto is dah best". |
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