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NEWS: Core Magazine's Head Editor, 2 More Arrested for 'Obscene' Manga, Photos


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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:18 am Reply with quote
I've never read these magazines in questions so I can't comment on what censoring they did or didn't use... but it seems to me that the obvious question here is: where is the standard for censorship actually defined in policy or law? Otherwise, it seems to me that the police can just decide they don't like you and say "we don't think it's censored enough", and then arrest you because they said so. (The article alludes to the fact that the police say they "warned them", but what standard was being applied?) I suppose the next step is that it has to go before a judge and they have to look at it all and decide if it was or wasn't good enough, but is it still just their opinion too...?

This is exactly the sort of thing that was considered troublesome with the other laws that were being proposed in recent months. Selective enforcement based on vague ill-defined "we'll know it when we see it" standards, that keeps everyone guessing whether they'll be targeted next. And this was for work that was already labelled 18+. And now we can expect to see the chilling effect in full force, and other publishers to apply much broader censorship just to avoid any "risk".

I'm not trying to argue that this particular content was wholesome or whatever else (I don't know it), but the precedent just seems weird to me.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:28 am Reply with quote
relentlessflame wrote:
I've never read these magazines in questions so I can't comment on what censoring they did or didn't use... but it seems to me that the obvious question here is: where is the standard for censorship actually defined in policy or law? Otherwise, it seems to me that the police can just decide they don't like you and say "we don't think it's censored enough", and then arrest you because they said so.

This is exactly the sort of thing that was considered troublesome with the other laws that were being proposed in recent months. Selective enforcement based on vague ill-defined "we'll know it when we see it" standards, that keeps everyone guessing whether they'll be targeted next.


I've read that this is by intent. I think it was somewhere on Dan Kanemitu's blog but I'm not sure precisely which entry.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:46 am Reply with quote
The more important issue is why Japan has censoring in the first place on magazines that are rated 18+. I know it has been that way for a while, but I'm sorry a lot of those magazines sold feature far more questionable material on the whole making a black line over a penis kind of moot. So its okay to show a women getting rapped by a tentacle monster, as long as there are a few well placed bars. Ridiculous, really.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:47 am Reply with quote
Megastore is always decently censored to me, black bars in all the right places. If the police were truly trying to enforce just censorship of genitalia, they'd be able to bust every single h-manga magazine and pretty much all independent doujinshi artists. There's definitely more to this than just "improper censorship". It's a stupid old law set in place while Japan was trying to modernize further in the early 20th century, and it wasn't included with the other freedoms when the new constitutional government removed the censorship the Imperial government had set in place.

Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:49 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
The more important issue is why Japan has censoring in the first place on magazines that are rated 18+. I know it has been that way for a while, but I'm sorry a lot of those magazines sold feature far more questionable material on the whole making a black line over a penis kind of moot. So its okay to show a women getting rapped by a tentacle monster, as long as there are a few well placed bars. Ridiculous, really.


It's based on a law made back in the 1940s, put in there by the U.S. occupying force (I think I saw something recently claiming this wasn't actually true, but as far as I know, it is). So yeah, you can probably thank the U.S. for this particular bit of bullshit. Of course, this doesn't absolve Japan for how they choose to enforce it or any additions, as they've shown they're quite willing to do.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:52 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
It's based on a law made back in the 1940s, put in there by the U.S. occupying force (I think I saw something recently claiming this wasn't actually true, but as far as I know, it is). So yeah, you can probably thank the U.S. for this particular bit of bullshit. Of course, this doesn't absolve Japan for how they choose to enforce it or any additions, as they've shown they're quite willing to do.


Refer to my post above, the censorship was done to the Japanese by themselves, right after the Russo-Japanese War. It falls in line with other things the government was trying to do away with, like mixed bathing at sentos and onsens because it's "indecent". Don't blame MacArthur for this, blame the Victorian society of the 40 years prior that Japan was desperately trying to emulate.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:55 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
HitokiriShadow wrote:
It's based on a law made back in the 1940s, put in there by the U.S. occupying force (I think I saw something recently claiming this wasn't actually true, but as far as I know, it is). So yeah, you can probably thank the U.S. for this particular bit of bullshit. Of course, this doesn't absolve Japan for how they choose to enforce it or any additions, as they've shown they're quite willing to do.


Refer to my post above, the censorship was done to the Japanese by themselves, right after the Russo-Japanese War. It falls in line with other things the government was trying to do away with, like mixed bathing at sentos and onsens because it's "indecent". Don't blame MacArthur for this.


Ah, okay, your post wasn't there when I started writing mine. Interesting, for many years, the "the U.S. did it" thing came up as a correction when this topic came up and I never saw a correction to that until very recently. So I guess Japan gets 100% of the blame for this stupid law after all.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:58 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
Ah, okay, your post wasn't there when I started writing mine. Interesting, for many years, the "the U.S. did it" thing came up as a correction when this topic came up and I never saw a correction to that until very recently. So I guess Japan gets 100% of the blame for this stupid law after all.


If you want to get more technical, freedom of visible genitalia could have been provided in the new constitution, but it was left unchanged, blame the Americans for not doing enough. But it was the late 40s, who in the world would have guaranteed something like that? Though in the last 60 years, Japan could have revised that law if they wanted. They haven't, and I fear it may only get worse.
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:00 am Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
The more important issue is why Japan has censoring in the first place on magazines that are rated 18+. I know it has been that way for a while, but I'm sorry a lot of those magazines sold feature far more questionable material on the whole making a black line over a penis kind of moot. So its okay to show a women getting rapped by a tentacle monster, as long as there are a few well placed bars. Ridiculous, really.

I don't necessarily disagree with this in principle, as I agree that it is more than a bit silly. But, if you are going to have this sort of principle in effect, at least there has to be some sort of objective standard of what is and isn't deemed "indecent".

In practice, I suspect it's really about finding the content itself (or those who distribute/publish it) "offensive" and using the "lack of sufficient censorship" as the excuse to perform the arrest.
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:03 am Reply with quote
relentlessflame wrote:
In practice, I suspect it's really about finding the content itself (or those who distribute/publish it) "offensive" and using the "lack of sufficient censorship" as the excuse to perform the arrest.


And what does censorship mean? A thin black/grey/white/transparent bar over certain parts of the anatomy? Completely whited-out? Fully mosaic'd? Replaced with a Subway sandwich? There's no standard, so artists basically just do what they choose and most figure "good enough."
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:17 am Reply with quote
oh for fu*** sake's it's okay to have junior idol dvd's and love hotels but if you show a drawing of a PENIS or a VAGINA not censored properly you can got to jail. I've actually like some of the 1-shots that occur in this monthly magazine so it's a bit distressing to hear this bu what can you do?
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:25 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
And what does censorship mean? A thin black/grey/white/transparent bar over certain parts of the anatomy? Completely whited-out? Fully mosaic'd? Replaced with a Subway sandwich? There's no standard, so artists basically just do what they choose and most figure "good enough."

Yeah, that was basically the point I was making in the paragraph before and in the first post. In practice, they basically wait until the police make some sort of arrest like this, look at what those people had done that was deemed unacceptable, and try to make sure they're "more censored than they were"... and hope for the best, until some other arrest happens and "re-clarifies" what the cops deem acceptable today. Nevermind that, without a standard, the line could be drawn to a different degree in every area.
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revolutionotaku



Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 742
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:35 am Reply with quote
When I was in Japan last time, I went to a book store & read hentai manga that actually had transparent black bars.
So what's the point of censoring something when most people can still see what's beneath the surface?
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:38 am Reply with quote
Because censorship like that is a gesture, they're "censoring" to get the law off their ass but they don't want to tarnish their own work over a stupid century old law. Again, it depends on the artist and how strict they want to be; Japanese prison is a miserable place.
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kazziyan



Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 390
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:17 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Because censorship like that is a gesture, they're "censoring" to get the law off their ass but they don't want to tarnish their own work over a stupid century old law. Again, it depends on the artist and how strict they want to be; Japanese prison is a miserable place.


Pretty much. It'd be annoying if they mosaic'd the entire area.
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