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NEWS: Hayao Miyazaki Works With CG Animator Yūhei Sakuragi


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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:26 pm Reply with quote
I'm guessing it will be an original film or something, hopefully something impressive though.
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Seska1973



Joined: 31 May 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Perhaps his Mind is still full of Stories he want to Animate. I do hope he still can focus on Work in front of him. You know, i am talking about Burnout.

Let's see
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Miyazaki and I are often at odds, but I am with him on older quotes that CG is less about animation, and more about puppetry. That's fine and good on its own, and I think lends for credit to his quote there at the end. 2D and 3D can coexist simply because they are different.

Good to see him embrace the new form, i think if he stubbornly clung to just 2D it'd backfire at some point, and he finally let go of needing everything to be a theatrical event. He'll be around for a few more decades, my bet.
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Blue21



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:00 pm Reply with quote
So I guess he changed his mind about retiring again?
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Blackiris_
Aria CompanyAria Company


Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Blue21 wrote:
So I guess he changed his mind about retiring again?

No. He only said he was retiring from feature-length movies which obviously is still the case. I'm pretty sure that as long as he is physically and mentally able to work, he will still be at the studio on a daily basis.

He even said he is so busy that he doubts he will be finishing his hobby project, the samurai manga.
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Arale Kurashiki



Joined: 24 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:11 pm Reply with quote
But, yknow, as long as that CGI isn't done with an iPad. Then it's masturbatory evil.
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Cool. Hopefully it's a work we're able to see even if it's a short or not.
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Hyperdrve



Joined: 03 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Oh look, Miyazaki isn't saying something negative for change. Maybe he'll finally act like a proper old man and use his resources to inspire the youth about practical awareness topics such as nature conservation and international cooperation. I don't understand how someone with so few days left in this earth can afford to be such a ball of negativity.

But I find it very promising that he's now working with CG and plans on making shorts for his Ghibli Museum. I'll look forward to them.

EDIT: I confused Miyazaki with Anno a bit but it doesn't matter because to me they're partners in crime. Now if only Anno could follow suit.
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Blackiris_
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:28 pm Reply with quote
You know, its because of Anno that we have the Animator Expo right now, which is one of the best things that happened to the industry recently. I wouldn't call that negative.

It's also easier to understand what Anno and Miyazaki mean if you know more about their personalities and backgrounds, and the context in which they said what is later quoted all around the internet. Especially when they talk about the anime industry. They don't talk from a consumer's point of view.

I don't think Miyazaki is more negative nowadays. He was always very direct and never afraid to steps on people's feet. And he's already doing things like "nature conservation".
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:32 pm Reply with quote
I have nothing against CGI in itself it's done well. My problem is that Japan is about 20 years behind America in terms of quality CGI animation. It seems like most of the time when Japan attempts CGI characters, they always look very janky and unnatural. About the only anime I can think of that's been done in full CGI that I was really impressed by the CGI was Knights of Sidonia and Final Fantasy Spirits Within had some decent CGI for how old that movie is. But by and large, CGI characters in anime tend to look very horrible and low budget. Even Ghibli's attempt at making a full CGI show with that Ronja the Robber's Daughter show just looked ugly. I much prefer it when anime uses CGI for the background animation and special effects and keep the characters in 2D like how they did it in Fate/Zero. I'm also not sure how Miyazaki can claim there isn't anymore talented 2D animation work. Has Miyazaki not seen Mamoru Hosoda films or the works of Ufotable? Or Your Lie In April?
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:52 am Reply with quote
CCT: That CG Doraemon looks pretty good to me. Anyway, you don't get it. Being proficient in that format just makes you more interchangeable and disposable, because you don't have a distinct style of your own.
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Yet regardless of what one thinks about the quality of the storytelling, most everyone who reviews anime always praises the high quality animation of studios like KyoAni and Bones and Madhouse. Really, about the only anime company you could legitimately argue doesn't have any talent is Toei which everyone universally regards as horrible. And Doraemon is a big budget film based on a popular beloved children's franchise so of course it's going to have good CGI animation. But you take a movie like Expelled From Paradise which was otherwise highly praised and most anime reviews, including ANN, criticized the movie for its poorly animated CGI characters. I have no doubts Miyazaki can pull off a good looking CGI anime, but since it's being made for the Ghibli Museum, most of us in the West will likely not be able to ever actually watch it to judge for ourselves anyway. In any case, I doubt Miyazaki even watches TV to know what modern anime even looks like if past interviews with him are any indication.
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Blackiris_
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:17 pm Reply with quote
I think Ronja looked pretty good in 3D (I also think that Ghibli was in general not much involved compared to Polygon Pictures who did the animation). That's also because I think the style translates pretty well into 3D whereas many anime styles do not. But yes, Japanese 3D CG definitely is not up to the Western standards, at least not when it comes to anime. Video games, especially those with high budget, seem to do it right pretty often.

The thing is that Western animation tends to look highly unrealistic and "comicy" whereas Japanese animation usually tries to look more realistic (pre-rendered 3D CG in Final Fantasy video games, Captain Harlock etc.) or translate 2D animation into 3D. The latter often looks pretty bad because there is not yet an established style.

But I think that the Japanese people are slowly getting the hang of it. In anime, CGI is used at a daily basis nowadays, and often there's a clear contrast between what's hand-drawn and what's computer-animated which is, in my opinion, a big problem. When done right, the watcher can't really see the different, but this requires extra work.

Some video games like Valkyria Chronicle, however, are looking pretty good and have found a good anime style to use in a 3D game.

@CCTakato: I think Miyazaki referred to the industry in general. There are always some talented individuals, but the actual "animation" in TV anime shows is pretty low-standard nowadays. Yes, it looks pretty because the drawings are colorful and they use light effects and the backgrounds are beautiful, but generally animation is pretty limited. It was always pretty limited but when I compare today's anime shows to older shows, I feel that the older shows clearly win in the movement section (realistic character movement and expressiveness) while today's shows are clearly more pretty and advanced in the effect section.

It's also a problem that characters look quite detailed nowadays which makes animating them harder. There is hardly any good "animation" found in TV anime today, and even 30 years ago it was pretty rare. It looks better when it comes to movies, but not much better. More elaborate animation is possible due to the much higher budget and less rushed schedule, but in general I don't think there are many animators that are very good at portraying movements today.

I think many people think "good animation" equals "looks pretty" but that's not actually what animation is about. The difference is pretty obvious when you pay close attention to the details, and if you compare new to old anime, it is pretty obvious that the industry has established pretty reliable ways to make things "look good" without having too much movement. Special effects, camera movement, focusing only on the upper body or head of a character, moving still frames, fast cuts are all tricks used excessively today, and they (often successfully) hide that animation is not as much about animation as it used to be.

To really "see" what I mean, watching old stuff from Miyazaki and Takahata (from their pre-Ghibli times) and paying close attention to details might help.

I agree, though, that Hosoda is a pretty good animator, and we also have a couple of others, like the young Colorido guys. In general I agree with Miyazaki, though, and the industry is pretty much stagnating for a long time now in the animation segment, and it's unlikely things will change. Good animation was never really the standard, you see, and as drawings and character designs got more elaborate the people who had actually put in effort animating things slowly vanished.
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CCTakato



Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:37 pm Reply with quote
I think that's looking at the past through rose colored glasses though. Yes, we had a lot of lovely looking big budget feature films and some impressive OVAs, but unless you were one of those, or from a big name company like Sunrise, you could forget about having a big animation budget. Plenty of older anime took lots of short cuts in the animation budget too; tons of stock footage used for attack sequences, characters going into super deformed mode at random times, and simplistic static backgrounds for every other scene were the name of the game for most old school anime. Even high quality shows like Escaflowne couldn't escape the problem of characters going wildly off model in certain episodes when the animators felt like going cheap on the budget so they can save the most of their money for the flashy fight scenes. And Miyazaki has been complaining about how horrible every other anime besides the stuff he makes has been since the 80s so pardon me if I don't take his criticism of modern anime all that seriously.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:34 am Reply with quote
CCT:
Quote:
And Doraemon is a big budget film based on a popular beloved children's franchise so of course it's going to have good CGI animation.


Not necessarily. It's most likely the culmination of years of research and testing throughout the industry in general.

Quote:
But you take a movie like Expelled From Paradise which was otherwise highly praised and most anime reviews, including ANN, criticized the movie for its poorly animated CGI characters.


Well, that's one of those 'blended' anime. And those always have mixed results.

Quote:
or from a big name company like Sunrise, you could forget about having a big animation budget.


I don't think Sunrise has a big animation budget. I just think they're more specialized in what they produce.
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