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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:35 pm Reply with quote
Yay, Undertale! Everyone who likes quirky indie games, RPG, or old school games should at least try it. The fandom can be a bit crazy but I was pressured into playing it but I was super glad it was pushed on me so much because I loved it. It does start kind of slow but that's part of the appeal; you're not really expecting much and by the end it takes so many twists and turns that it's really amazing. Really hoping that the 'Tumblr' types don't turn people off from trying it. Sometimes it seems like pointing out all the progressive elements in something just makes people feel like they're having it 'pushed' on them when that's definitely not the case. I don't even think Undertale's creator was intentionally thinking much of those elements anyways.

FF14 is also amazing as an FF fangirl who's played every FF game it's basically like crack to me. Here's that Mog Song
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Greed1914
It's Over 9000!It's Over 9000!


Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3313
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:24 pm Reply with quote
You're not alone in your experience with Fallout 4, Zac. The game came out shortly after I finished my second run on the Witcher 3, and I'm not feeling Fallout nearly as much as I thought I would. That second run on TW3 began immediately after spending about 120 hours the first time. Right now, I can play Fallout 4 in small bursts, but things like getting lost in the Corvega plant quickly remind me of how a lot of frustrations I had with the previous games, which I loved, are still there. Also, I thought the way the Witcher 3 handled a lot of major decisions was brilliant because they would be hidden in related decisions, but it wouldn't usually come at you with a "Make a pivotal choice now" situation.
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Roxas4ever
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:43 am Reply with quote
I'm surprised how many people I've come across who REALLY struggled with the boss battles in Undertale. It was my first bullet hell game, and, other than the fight with Undyne (which is relatively early), I didn't have any trouble. That being said, Zac mentioned something about a controller? I played this game using a keyboard. I wonder if that has any effect on the difficulty of the battles.

Zac is boss for talking Kate Marsh down from the roof in Life is Strange. I ####ed up the very last dialogue option in that scene, and when she jumped, my heart fell through my stomach, and I stopped the game. I felt physically nauseous and angry for the rest of the day. That game has quite a few really emotionally powerful scenes. There were a few times I had to put the game down for a few days and recover before I could continue. I agree with Zac that the final episode wasn't nearly as good as the first four, but I don't think it was completely horrid. The ending decision came off as really simple, and sort of felt like a cop-out for a game that kept stressing the importance of decisions, but that ties in with the theme of the game: about the inevitability of fate. Did Dontnod succeed at creating a good game? Yes. Is it the high school-based game (where you see your various interactions with people and your environment play out in different ways) that I wanted when I started episode 1? No. Word is that Dontnod plans on doing a second Life is Strange game, with new characters. My hope is that they drop all of the trippy sci-fi stuff from the first season and just make a game where you really can have a different experience with each playthrough.
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bemused Bohemian
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 397
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:55 pm Reply with quote
Don't know squat about games but show was a hoot anyway. Do hope there will be a Zac-inspired TRSI commercial parody show off in the near future. Your worse-case shopper gift-giving scenario moral dilemmae has possibilities. With the right chemical or herbal supplementation I'm certain an interesting anime store commercial could be created.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Lili-Hime wrote:
Yay, Undertale! Everyone who likes quirky indie games, RPG, or old school games should at least try it. The fandom can be a bit crazy but I was pressured into playing it but I was super glad it was pushed on me so much because I loved it. It does start kind of slow but that's part of the appeal; you're not really expecting much and by the end it takes so many twists and turns that it's really amazing. Really hoping that the 'Tumblr' types don't turn people off from trying it. Sometimes it seems like pointing out all the progressive elements in something just makes people feel like they're having it 'pushed' on them when that's definitely not the case. I don't even think Undertale's creator was intentionally thinking much of those elements anyways.!!


I've never heard anything about "progressiveness" in Undertale. I've only heard "EarthBound/Cave Story rip off" from my friends. Though i don't really hang out in a crowd that talks about Tumblr or progressiveness so that's probably why. Never played it myself, but i generally avoid indie games.

Quote:
FF14 is also amazing as an FF fangirl who's played every FF game it's basically like crack to me. Here's that Mog Song

FFXIV has been my favorite MMO or game in general for awhile now. Especially since Heavensward. The music is definately the best i've heard in an MMO, and Moggle Mog ranks as my third favorite Primal song. Knights of the Round and Alexander surpass it though. I adore the goblin rave inside Alexander. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time with Verminion as well.

-Stuart Smith
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1144
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:50 pm Reply with quote
I heard the Progressive thing, but honestly Undertale is jsut all around great. The rumors of overly-progressive-tumblrisms are likely fans of such things that see things they like and then praising them more than is needed.

Undertale is a well made game first, and has interesting moral values second. It is not a propaganda package with game elements tacked on. That's why it is getting tons of praise and the only complaints are people complaining about others praising it too much. Frankly its a nice problem to have and a symbol of a Job Well Done.
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Wayne.No



Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:18 pm Reply with quote
Man, When Zac said that thing about getting stuck on the Archers in Anor Londo I lost it. Haha, Those Damn Arches man, they get everyone. Everyone has a story about them.
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:01 am Reply with quote
H. Guderian wrote:
I heard the Progressive thing, but honestly Undertale is jsut all around great. The rumors of overly-progressive-tumblrisms are likely fans of such things that see things they like and then praising them more than is needed.

Undertale is a well made game first, and has interesting moral values second.


Exactly; this is what I was trying to say but you worded it a lot better, esp. the bolded. Most people really don't care if they have a female or non-white protaganist, they just don't wanna hear people praise that endlessly as if it inherently makes the piece of media objectively better.

Stuart Smith wrote:

I've never heard anything about "progressiveness" in Undertale. I've only heard "EarthBound/Cave Story rip off" from my friends. Though i don't really hang out in a crowd that talks about Tumblr or progressiveness so that's probably why.

Eh, it's a bit more unique than just copying earthbound. Since it seems you don't care about playing it the elements people tend to talk about are spoiler[That the MC is never given a set gender or ethnicity. MC is truly a blank slate in a way most other RPG protags aren't. Also later on there is a date scene and romance between two female characters.]

I've never actually played an MMO outside of 14 D: I'm usually really averse to them but my partner & IRL friends played so yeah I decided to try it out and had a lot of fun. Highly recommend it for anyone that loves Final Fantasy. The levels of fanservice (the non pervy kind) is insane. You can fight Ultros, get Cloud's outfit, etc. Anime hyper
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 4991
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:11 am Reply with quote
It just occurred to me. With the seemingly rise of prominence of adventure games, why hasn't the Japanese get in on the action yet? I guess you could argue visual novels are a variation of those games, but what about Japan attempting 3DCG ones like Life is Strange or anything by Telltale? I could see companies like Atlus or even Square Enix pull off pure adventure games.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:01 am Reply with quote
Lili-Hime wrote:
Spoilers


Hm, that honestly doesnt sound all that Tumblr-y. I watched some videos
on Undertale and I think if anything I think it's more accurate to say it leans to the Homestuck/Five Nights at Freddies side of Tumblr than the progressive side. I saw far more people having harmless fun than gushing about any social issues.

darkchibi07 wrote:
It just occurred to me. With the seemingly rise of prominence of adventure games, why hasn't the Japanese get in on the action yet? I guess you could argue visual novels are a variation of those games, but what about Japan attempting 3DCG ones like Life is Strange or anything by Telltale? I could see companies like Atlus or even Square Enix pull off pure adventure games.
Those kinds of games aren't adventure games, at least true to the original genre of adventure games like King's Quest and Monkey Island. Tough I guess the genre has been reprimanded. I call those interactive stories. You really only pick dialog options. In that regard a lot of Japanese games are like that like visual novels as you mentioned. As for why they're not 3DCG, I think graphics speak for themselves. Telltale games and Life Is Strange have pretty poor models and graphics due to their small budgets. Visual novels are much more budget friendly. I'd rather have gorgeus 2D artwork over bad CG.

Then again people already say games with hour long cutscenes like RPGs or Metal Gear are interactive movies as well. SquareEnix already has plenty of RPGs with grand, epic stories, likewise Atlus. Asking them to make purely dialog options seems like a step backwards in a way. They could always just make an anime if they want to tell a pure story. Both companies have, in fact.

-Stuart Smith
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:26 pm Reply with quote
So I come at gaming from a casual fan standpoint. I enjoyed playing some video games when I was younger when I had a Super Nintendo or N64 (Zelda, Star Fox, Super Mario, Mariokart, Donkey Kong), but I've never completed a game. Once things got too tough, too boring, or I tired of the gameplay, I'd stop. The only reason I bought a PS2 and X-Box (both as the next versions were released) were for dance games like DDR and Dance Central. Otherwise, I didn't keep up with the gaming scene.

Then comes the beginning of 2013, and I start watching Let's Play videos. Now I'm a lot more aware of what's going on in gaming, but I'm still a casual because I'm watching other people play the games. However, I really enjoy it and it works for me. Since I'm not actually playing (and stopping because I get bored), I get to see a game through to its conclusion. I can get invested in the story line and characters, which often are what interests me most. I often enjoy the commentary of the person playing the game as well. And listening to a wide variety of personalities doing collabs together can be loads of fun (almost anything with the Derp Crew is hilarious, Don't Starve Together, groups playing Splatoon together, etc). As you get to know the LPers better, you know which ones are best to watch for certain games. For a game with a lot of pathos or story, I normally go with Cryaotic or Geek Remix.

However, watching LPs has also gotten me interested in playing more games again. I am interested in the Mass Effect franchise, the Bioshock franchise, and some others, despite already knowing/watching the endings (so the likelihood of me finishing is probably really slim, but I'd like to give them a try). I am interested in finding a group to play Don't Starve Together or Splatoon with. I think what mostly holds me back at this point is money and the lack of a good PC (or in Splatoon's case, a Wii U, which probably won't get resolved at any point soon, heh). Anime/manga is where a majority of my entertainment goes, and that's an expensive endeavor. And ever since I started college in 2004, all I've owned are laptops since they best fit my needs, and I never bought them in mind that I'd be playing video games. However, next year I'm considering getting a new computer, and I'm already looking into desktops that will allow me to do gaming.

I did buy one game this year, Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, which I've been bringing to work on Fridays and playing with some co-workers at lunch. As mentioned, this is a very fun game! I'm usually the person who's disarming the bomb. I've been able to memorize parts of the manual (Buttons, Simon Says) at this point. I have the hardest time with the Morse Code - I keep mixing up the dots and dashes.

Anyways, I finally decided to watch Cryaotic's LP of Undertale this weekend (recommendations by my friends and discussion on this podcast convinced me). He played the Pacifist, then True Pacifist routes. And, wow, I really, really love the game. It is probably my favorite game I've seen released this year (SOMA and Life is Strange are other standouts). I fell in love with the characters (especially PAPYRUS and sans), and I loved all of the unexpected twists and turns the game delivered. There was always a hint at how dark and twisted the game could be at the beginning, and then it decides to show you how much so later on. And yet it still maintains a sort of optimism and humorous levity throughout it all for the TP route. And then I had to see the Genocide route solely for the Bad Time battle... and holy shit is that insane. The music is fantastic, and the boss battle is absolutely intense. So I tried the Bad Time simulator that a fan created (don't click if you don't want to know the boss or similar game play that occurs during the game). And promptly got dunked on, lol.

As for the Tumblrisms of the game, you can tell that the game will likely resonate with certain crowds. There's meta humor, characters, and character relationships that would appeal to certain fans, and those who recognize it can join in the wink wink, nudge nudge. For example, if you download the sprites file for the game, the two Royal Guards who show up in the game spoiler[are named "Bara," clearly a reference to the Japanese term for comics made for gay men.] The game is fantastic in spite and because of these things. It's cleverly written in both it's characterization and story, and has a lot of unexpected humor with universal appeal.

Specifically in regards to the homosexual relationships that pop up in the game, I would just like to mention that this is one kind I'd like to see more of in entertainment in general. Where they're treated as something natural within the story itself and as an aspect of the game. It normalizes the experience. It's not focused on in an "OMG THEY'RE GAY" sort of way. It's just two people who fall in love who both happen to be of the same sex.

I want to buy the game and play it myself some time in the future (likely once I get a desktop and can figure out a way to hook up a game controller to it - I'm still not comfortable using a keyboard with gaming, despite how simple it should be - a joystick and few buttons that aren't surrounded by multiple useless keys feels a lot more natural). I don't ever forsee myself doing anything other than a Pacifist run through though. I'm too attached to certain characters.


Last edited by Crisha on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:01 pm Reply with quote
@Stuart
Oh I agree totally I'm just anxious I don't want the fandom to go the way of the Steven Universe fandom lol.

willag wrote:
Specifically in regards to the homosexual relationships that pop up in the game, I would just like to mention that this is one kind I'd like to see more of in entertainment in general. Where they're treated as something natural within the story itself and as an aspect of the game. It normalizes the experience. It's not focused on in an "OMG THEY'RE GAY" sort of way. It's just two people who fall in love who both happen to be of the same sex.

Fully agree! Normalizing is a great word, drawing attention to it as you pointed out kind of cheapens the characters. There's a lot to people outside of their sexuality and a lot to romance besides the genders involved. I mean I'm IN a same sex relationship and both me and my gf get sick of the "OMG LOOK HOW GAY IT IS" part of Tumblr culture.

Quote:
I want to buy the game and play it myself some time in the future (likely once I get a desktop and can figure out a way to hook up a game controller to it

I'm like you I never PC gamed in my life outside of The Sims so I'm a total klutz and failure with KB & Mouse. There are a ton of USB controllers out there, though. Any console controller from the past few years you can use in your PC too; that's how I played Undertale. There's one weird part where you have to type in a battle but other than that you can do all controller.
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Maur



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 51
Location: SLC - Not Quite NYC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:44 pm Reply with quote
I just want to say that Zac's ridiculous ad readings have become my favorite part of these podcasts. I'm consistently surprised at Zac's ability to make me laugh with his semi-sarcastic tongue-in-cheek promotions of otherwise droll obligations. I still laugh at the whole ghost in a box nonsense. Laughing
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