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GAME: Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite


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FilthyCasual



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:36 am Reply with quote
Pokken sold better.
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Stuart Smith



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:52 am Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
Pokken sold better.


Pokken was actually a polished game and wasn't a rushed product made to shill the MCU, to be fair.

-Stuart Smith
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:14 pm Reply with quote
I remember playing Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 (I didn't have the original version and intentionally opted for Ultimate because I knew it'd come out and for a discounted price), and I was getting destroyed and annihilated left and right by almost everyone I was playing against. I had almost no prior fighting game experience, not counting Smash Bros., but it felt rather demoralizing, considering I've played plenty of other multiplayer-oriented games and was able to eventually keep up. In those cases though, it was because I understood what I was doing wrong and corrected myself (the only reason I am good at anything at all is because I made every mistake at the start), whereas playing UMvC3, it was going much too fast to know why any attempt I had to land a hit just resulted in me getting comboed until that character was knocked out.

Honestly, it's no fun being at the receiving end of long combos. I stopped playing after it became clear I was not improving.

Any perspectives from a fellow klutz like myself, one who cannot do dragon punch motions without the game thinking they're quarter circles? How does Infinite play from someone at a button-masher level? Can someone like me even get a few victories online here and there? Is there a way to tell when an opponent's combo ends so you can move again? It wasn't clear in UMvC3 so by the time I realize I can break free, I've become trapped in another one.
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Beatdigga



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:13 pm Reply with quote
Your average fanfic writer could probably have put together a more compelling story.

Great gameplay, but an awful package.
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:44 pm Reply with quote
A lot of people admitted they're playing this for the sole reason X is in a fighting game at long last, and that Zero returning from MvC3 is a great excuse to pair them up or try to reenact the famous duel from Mega Man X5.
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Naotomato



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
I remember playing Ultimate Marvel versus Capcom 3 (I didn't have the original version and intentionally opted for Ultimate because I knew it'd come out and for a discounted price), and I was getting destroyed and annihilated left and right by almost everyone I was playing against. I had almost no prior fighting game experience, not counting Smash Bros., but it felt rather demoralizing, considering I've played plenty of other multiplayer-oriented games and was able to eventually keep up. In those cases though, it was because I understood what I was doing wrong and corrected myself (the only reason I am good at anything at all is because I made every mistake at the start), whereas playing UMvC3, it was going much too fast to know why any attempt I had to land a hit just resulted in me getting comboed until that character was knocked out.

Honestly, it's no fun being at the receiving end of long combos. I stopped playing after it became clear I was not improving.

Any perspectives from a fellow klutz like myself, one who cannot do dragon punch motions without the game thinking they're quarter circles? How does Infinite play from someone at a button-masher level? Can someone like me even get a few victories online here and there? Is there a way to tell when an opponent's combo ends so you can move again? It wasn't clear in UMvC3 so by the time I realize I can break free, I've become trapped in another one.


From a person that plays fighting games, you are better off playing another game. Learn how to do 236 motions first then come back to MVC series. Understand what a 236 is in general. Infinite is more user friendly but it still plays like UMVC in terms of gameplay. You still need to figure out tier lists, what to do if you are against a character that you have an advantage or disadvantage, and how to do reads.

Pick a main (or 2) and a sub. Understand what the character does in general. The easiest way to pick mains and a sub is go to training mode (in any game) and test out each and every character. If a character fits how you play/like to play and doesn't require a lot of effort on your part there is your main. Your sub should be a character that can help against other characters that are better than your main and/or that you don't feel as comfortable with than your main(s). If there are many characters that you like or fit that criteria then what you do is look at your list of those characters. Narrow it down by, once again, characters gave you the least amount of effort and struggle. If it's still too big once again narrow it down by looking at combos. If they seem too difficult or long for that character cross them out. Keep the ones that you are comfortable with.

If you want to learn how to do advance combos, figure out your main(s) and your sub BnB and look at combo videos for a further guide. If you want to learn how to do the game in general, stick in training mode for the basics. Online is mostly people who already understand the gameplay of fighting games along with the MVC series and not newbies like yourself.

Also learn the gameplay terms such as neutral game, footsie, etc. and how to apply them. Understand how the other characters work. Learn what to expect when you fight them and how to counter them (or if your character is bad against them.)

If you want to be really advance you can learn how to look at framerates and figure out what to do with them and how to apply them.


Last edited by Naotomato on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beansy99



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:55 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Any perspectives from a fellow klutz like myself, one who cannot do dragon punch motions without the game thinking they're quarter circles? How does Infinite play from someone at a button-masher level? Can someone like me even get a few victories online here and there? Is there a way to tell when an opponent's combo ends so you can move again? It wasn't clear in UMvC3 so by the time I realize I can break free, I've become trapped in another one.


Combo length has been reduced; touch of death combos are not possible in this game due to the way damage scales now. There should be more low level players on this one than in Ultimate, because it's actually a new game with new system mechanics. Ultimate was just an update of MvC3, which meant the playerbase had 8-9 months of practice with the game.

The game will explain what your options are but it won't explicitly teach you how to play. If you're interested in that you'll have to hit up Youtube and check for the community created tutorials. My guess is you'd be frustrated playing with randoms, but if you can round up some players at your skill level you can absolutely have fun with this game.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:22 pm Reply with quote
Naotomato wrote:

From a person that plays fighting games, you are better off playing another game. Learn how to do 236 motions first then come back to MVC series. Infinite is more user friendly but it still plays like UMVC in terms of gameplay. You still need to figure out tier lists, what to do if you are against a character that you have an advantage or disadvantage, and how to do reads.

Pick a main (or 2) and a sub. Understand what the character does in general. The easiest way to pick mains and a sub is go to training mode (in any game) and test out each and every character. If a character fits and doesn't require a lot of effort on your part there is your main. If you want to learn how to do combos, figure out that character(s) and your sub BnB and look at combo videos for a further guide. If you want to learn how to do the game in general, stick in training mode for the basics. Online is mostly people who already understand the gameplay of fighting games along with the MVC series and not newbies like yourself.

Also learn the gameplay terms such as neutral game, footsie, etc. and how to apply them.


Thanks for the advice. I CAN do quarter circle and half-circle movements, but any attempt to do something more complicated than that gets misinterpreted by the game I'm playing. (All dragon punches are interpreted as quarter-circles, for instance.) As other people don't seem to have that problem, I'm pretty sure it's because I'm doing something incorrectly without knowing what it is I'm doing wrong. (Maybe I'm too slow, or too quick, or covering too wide or too narrow of a range of motion, or something else I haven't thought of. It's the sort of thing that requires someone with a lot of patience watching over my shoulder.) Traditional 2-D fighting games have never clicked for me, not even Skullgirls, What bugs me is that traditional 2-D fighting games are the ONLY genre of video games where I haven't gotten the hang of it enough to play at a competent level.

I actually do understand fighting game terms, having watched a lot of footage myself and concentrating on what the announcers are saying. That being said, I tend towards tournament footage because I see a lot of different people playing, so I see a lot of different characters, playstyles, and other traits that would differ greatly. Applying them, on the other hand, is a different matter. I can understand and keep up when I'm watching, but it requires my full attention, attention that is diverted when playing the game funneled towards, well, playing the game.

All in all though, it sounds like Infinite would not be for me. I dislike maining as I quickly get bored of using the same character too much, though I don't mind having a "signature" character/civilization/vehicle/weapon while playing a lot of other ones. (When I decided to main Ness in Super Smash Bros. Melee, I almost just quit the series entirely after a few months as I was no longer having fun even if I was quite good with him, and it was rekindled when I decided I would use the entire roster and put my chip on "Random" in all matches no matter what unless my opponent said otherwise.) That being said, all of said signature choices were because they emotionally connected with me the most and were usually not whatever "fit" (though I would avoid anything the game's competitive community considers game-breakers, like Pokémon's Uber tier). Instead, I forced myself to become good with them. In other words, I can only have fun playing a game where there are a variety of choices if I can use everything the game provides for me. Perhaps that's why 2-D fighting games never clicked for me too, in addition to not understanding the controls: I am a "performer" type of player in a genre designed strictly for "technician" type players.

Technically, I COULD focus on one character at first, then expand to similar characters, then eventually expand to the entire roster, which is exactly what I did with Splatoon (in which I began with the Splat Roller, expanded to all Rollers, then to beginner-friendly weapons of every category, then to all weapons). But I'd first have to learn the basics, particularly the controls. If I can get that down, I think I can do that, but again, this is the sort of problem that requires someone watching over my shoulders, or at least a REALLY good tutorial that also functions as a guide (like them telling me "you're doing this too slow") or something.

But yeah, I mentioned it before, but thanks for the detailed information about how this game would be like for me. I'll avoid it then.

beansy99 wrote:
Combo length has been reduced; touch of death combos are not possible in this game due to the way damage scales now. There should be more low level players on this one than in Ultimate, because it's actually a new game with new system mechanics. Ultimate was just an update of MvC3, which meant the playerbase had 8-9 months of practice with the game.

The game will explain what your options are but it won't explicitly teach you how to play. If you're interested in that you'll have to hit up Youtube and check for the community created tutorials. My guess is you'd be frustrated playing with randoms, but if you can round up some players at your skill level you can absolutely have fun with this game.


That's odd. I thought there'd be more people who would get into Ultimate without playing the vanilla one.

But yeah, it really doesn't seem like I'd enjoy this, though I'm glad they addressed the touch-of-death problem in MvC3.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 3547
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Stuart Smith wrote:
FilthyCasual wrote:
Pokken sold better.


Pokken was actually a polished game and wasn't a rushed product made to shill the MCU, to be fair.

-Stuart Smith


however it was still better than this mess. however those games are inferior in gameplay and storyline to injustice 2 which is a hell of a lot better than this mess and SFV combined.
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Beatdigga



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Injustice’s story is actually well written and has logical character beats.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:20 pm Reply with quote
FilthyCasual wrote:
Pokken sold better.


Not bad for an arcade game that barely did any business to the point of nearly being pulled from arcades and ported to a platform where it did almost no better and then ported to another one seemingly out of desperation.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:56 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Not bad for an arcade game that barely did any business to the point of nearly being pulled from arcades and ported to a platform where it did almost no better and then ported to another one seemingly out of desperation.


Technically, Pokkén Tournament WAS pretty popular in Japanese arcades, but it wasn't a big enough earner to make back the price of the machine in any feasible amount of time. A single credit would allow even a beginner-level player to play for at least 15 minutes, which is far longer than average for an arcade game (where a credit would typically get you at most 5 minutes unless you're really good, maybe less than 60 seconds if you're bad at the game or unlucky). Arcade games are brutal because they're designed to suck money out of you as you play. Pokkén Tournament, if you're playing the single-player mode, guarantees you at least three best-2-of-3 matches against the AI. This means that Pokkén Tournament was by far the slowest earner of that season.

A Pokkén Tournament machine would only receive 4 credits per hour at most, whereas a fighting game or a rhythm game could get 20 or more especially if people play to compete against each other as each player must put in their own credits. To an arcade operator, there is nothing Pokkén Tournament does that some other arcade release doesn't do better, especially in earnings.

I guarantee that thing would still be in many Japanese arcades (and maybe places in the west where you can find arcade games, like pizza parlors, laundromats, bowling alleys, and movie theaters) if the game either charged more credits for playing or charged per match. It'd be consumer-unfriendly, but in the arcade industry, consumer-friendliness means you don't profit.
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ryanvamp



Joined: 08 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
Injustice’s story is actually well written and has logical character beats.


I agree except for a few characters that it completely destroys and misrepresents (Dr Fate, Swamp Thing). But then again only hardcore DC fans would care about that.


It's a shame Infinite is destined to fail and quite possibly sink this franchise into oblivion: gameplay-wise it's actually the best capcom fighting game in a decade and a blast. But what they did with the roster, DLC plans and lack of content is imo a lot worse than a mediocre art style.
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Souther



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:28 pm Reply with quote
@Leafy Sea Dragon: In Marvel/Vs games, if someone's got you in a combo and the combo counter's still going, you can't break free unless they drop it. Only 2 Vs games have mechanics that allow you to manually escape combos, and Infinite's one of them (at the cost of two bars, you can tag out your character to another during the opponent's combo).

UMVC3 is a particularly volatile game because it's fast, damage is high, attacks in general have large hit areas, have high hitstun and there's an abundance of hit/falling states that allow for free combos. That, plus other mechanics (both character-related and universal) result in a game where it's really, really easy to get overwhelmed and die. Even at the highest competitive level, people can get eaten alive lol. In this game, you won't die die as fast, but it'll be more of the same really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN0Mp41YcZ0&t=2h4m22s

There's no easy way to improve your execution. However, the best way to check your inputs is to turn on input display and look at the inputs to see whether or not your inputs are clean. In general, here's one way to perform DP motions that you might find easier: f, qcf+button.


Last edited by Souther on Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Souther wrote:
@Leafy Dragon: In Marvel/Vs games, if someone's got you in a combo and the combo counter's still going, you can't break free unless they drop it. Only 2 Vs games have mechanics that allow you to manually escape combos, and Infinite's one of them (at the cost of two bars, you can tag out your character to another during the opponent's combo).

UMVC3 is a particularly volatile game because it's fast, damage is high, attacks in general have large hit areas, have high hitstun and there's an abundance of hit/falling states that allow for free combos. That, plus other mechanics (both character-related and universal) result in a game where it's really, really easy to get overwhelmed and die. Even at the highest competitive level, people can get eaten alive lol. In this game, you won't die die as fast, but it'll be more of the same really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN0Mp41YcZ0&t=2h4m22s

There's no easy way to improve your execution. However, the best way to check your inputs is to turn on input display and look at the inputs to see whether or not your inputs are clean. In general, here's one way to perform DP motions that you might find easier: f, qcf+button.


Thanks. I have no further intention of playing this game, but I suppose it's worth asking: I try exactly that for dragon punches but the game registers it as either a quarter circle forward or just plain forward. Does this mean I'm executing it too slowly?

When playing UMvC3, I looked at the hit counter on the side of the screen to see if a combo would end. If it did and my character was not yet knocked out, I'd try to move back or launch an attack, but I'd always get outsped and get stuck in another one immediately, or if I do manage to escape, I'd try to get back in or counter but no matter what I do, I get trapped in another one.

I actually had slightly more success using the easy control scheme (where one button is assigned for attacks that auto-combos, one for Hyper Combos, one for launchers which also auto-jumped for you, and one for...something I forgot), though of course, this was highly predictable and I'd be easily outmaneuvered. I at least was able to win some matches every now and then that way, though my win percentage never climbed above 12% and was usually between 7% to 9%.
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