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INTEREST: Manga Creator Reiji Yamada Explains Why Mr. Osomatsu's 2nd Season Bombed in Japan


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Blatch



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 334
Location: Northeast U.S.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:52 pm Reply with quote
I personally think that the new season didn't bomb as much. It's just that the show got a lot bigger than it should have back in Season 1 due to the controversy of the banned episode. People decided to watch out of curiosity and ended up being hooked, but now most of the hype from that has worn off.
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Was it a bomb from a financial standpoint, though? Last I heard, the blu-rays still sold really well and there was plenty of merch.

Anyway, it was noticeable that they backed off the fujoshi humor, which was a mistake. Those segments from season 1 where the boys are all stereotypical flawless bishonen were really conspicuous in their absence in season 2. And it didn't help that they were replaced with an unfunny recurring bit where they were all cavemen.

Season 2 was fine, but the drop in quality from S1 was noticeable. If there's a third season, hopefully they'll take those lessons to heart (and a meta segment about how people didn't like season 2 could actually be pretty funny.)
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Brack



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 263
Location: UK
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:58 pm Reply with quote
I agree that having only one voice in the scripts was a big problem this season. I still think there was enough that hit to have made the season worthwhile creatively, but I did miss having the occasional Michiko Yokote script in the mix.
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Hazinger Zeta



Joined: 16 Dec 2014
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Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:05 pm Reply with quote
- Osomatsu S2 (first vol) sold above 10k first volume with BDs and DVDs combined. While it is indeed a sharp drop from season 1's 80-100k(iirc) sales (attributed to being a unprecented new phenomenon) it's something that the vast majority of shows would kill to have.

- Matsubara wrote most of season 1, including the iconic episodes everyone points to, with the other two mostly doing odds and ends like the Girlymatsu skits.

- Dirty jokes and gross-out humor has always been a card in the show's deck since very early season 1 with Ichimatsu nearly shitting on a Starbucks table when they were all annoying Totty on the job.

I would agree that it was probably the wait for the second season that made things fall apart fan-wise, as absurd as it sounds, given the ephemeral mindshare of anime fandom. The 18 months between the end of season 1 to the debut of season 2 is a fast turnover, especially considering the staff and some of the VAs had other obligations, and the show wasn't expected to be anywhere near as huge it had become.

Humor is subjective, but in general, I also dug season 2. Yeah, it wasn't as good as the first, but being compared to that near-perfect storm isn't much of any demerit on season 2's part.

Wyvern wrote:
Anyway, it was noticeable that they backed off the fujoshi humor, which was a mistake. Those segments from season 1 where the boys are all stereotypical flawless bishonen were really conspicuous in their absence in season 2.


I don't think anyone missed the F6 skits, actually. Or at the very least, there were no complaints. Also, for those purposes, the skit in the first half of the first episode of s2, which also served as a commentary on the brothers' newfound popularity, sufficed nicely. Sure it could have used maybe a few more like that, but after a certain point it could have been considered too obnoxious.
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Oddio



Joined: 09 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:27 pm Reply with quote
I'm wondering how much the show's fans treated season 1 like a flash-in-the-pan sort of deal, though. Something to watch and support while they were invested, but nothing that really kept them hooked in across a two-year-long break. I haven't finished Osomatsu s2 yet, but I found that, although I adored the first season's freshness back in 2015 (to the point where the show made me cry at least once when it tried to be sentimental), my passion for the show definitely dropped off once the season ended. I don't think the quality-gap is as big as people are making it out to be, and I still really enjoy when the show digs deeper, but some of the "lol these 6 characters are gross losers" humor is definitely tiring me out, especially when a lot of the skits definitely felt more dragged out this season.

Plus, from a fujoshi's perspective, there have been other (more canon) things that could have drawn them (and their money) to other shows since season 1. I'm looking at you, Yuri on Ice.
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yugandasekai



Joined: 24 May 2017
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Reiji Yamada's comments are really interesting and insightful!

Hazinger Zeta wrote:

Wyvern wrote:
Anyway, it was noticeable that they backed off the fujoshi humor, which was a mistake. Those segments from season 1 where the boys are all stereotypical flawless bishonen were really conspicuous in their absence in season 2.


I don't think anyone missed the F6 skits, actually...


I missed F6. And I also agree with Wyvern that the cavemen were unfunny.
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Araki



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 362
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:37 pm Reply with quote
This was just one of those overestimated flavor of the week hits that people quickly forget afterwards, that's why. Give it two more years and it's dead and forgotten for good.
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SakuraShimizu



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:00 am Reply with quote
I missed F6 too. While it pretty much was just a gag on UtaPri, I still enjoyed them. I loved season 1 and was sad to see it go. But I still have yet to finish this season. It wasn’t just the lack of F6 for me. It was just lacking something that the first season had.

I was also not a fan of the caveman skits.

Though to this season’s credit, the story with Iyami and the blind girl was really adorable.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 4419
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:09 am Reply with quote
I think he's wrong about the shows quality, season 1 started off after episode 1 rather average until they worked out the formula at episode 6. Season 2 started off pretty strong, and I felt the last 2 episodes were better than season 1s last 2, which is saying something.

Admittedly I feel I liked on average more episodes from Season 1, but when it came to the shows best episodes, i feel season 2 had more of the cream of the crop.
My favourite episodes of season 1; 10, 18, 22 and 25
My favourite episodes of season 2; 1, 11, 16, 18, 22, 24 and 25

As for sales, while it is a bit disappointing that it dropped from being extremely profitable, to be only profitable, I am personally fine with only having 2 seasons, I would not say no to another, but we got 50 episodes +extras.


Last edited by MarshalBanana on Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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CyberLance



Joined: 19 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:04 am Reply with quote
So does this mean that there is probably not going to be any more episodes?
Cant they make the next season focus more on the things people liked from the first season?
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5147
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:40 am Reply with quote
Manga Creator Reiji Yamada was speaking with the Japanese audience in mind. Sometimes Japan and the West have different mind sets when it comes to what is liked and what is not. That the creator had to come out and speak out this, seems to indicate that this is a more serious issue for Japan, than the comments in this forum seem to for the West.

We also do not know the financials for the second season's production costs. Did they spend more on the show expecting similar profit returns Expectations may have been higher. The Japanese may consider this show as bombing if it didn't meet those expectations.

While some have said that even though the numbers for S2 volume one is still 'profitable' (though not even in the realm of S1), there might be a fear that the future volumes for S2 will do even worse.
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Kiddo626



Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Posts: 62
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:46 am Reply with quote
The more I think about the Osomatsu-san phenomenon over time, the more convinced I am that this show was not meant to be as popular as it was, and that people were more attracted to the novelty of the show instead of the show/characters itself. As someone who was in the fandom during the hiatus, let me tell you, there was a LOT of Matsu stuff everywhere: merch, apps, stage plays, ads, collaborations, even bread clips. You can't make this stuff up.

By the time Season 2 finally came around, a lot of people in Japan were already sick of it, and I think that might have also been a contributing factor to its diminished popularity. TVTropes calls it Hype Backlash, and there's an entry for it on the Osomatsu-san YMMV page. However, I do think it's still somewhat profitable; there's still merch being sold, the mobile games are still going strong, they're still doing collaborations and ads, there's a new stage play coming up later this year, not to mention lots and LOTS of doujins. There's still some juice left in this franchise. Whether that'll be enough to merit a third season, I have no idea.

I think it was more of a general pressure Fujita and Matsubara were feeling to top themselves over the stuff they did last season than it was self-consciousness about being a "fujo show". This season definitely felt more cynical than the last, like they no longer had any passion for the show. But the finale felt so optimistic that a part of me wants to believe that they themselves want to keep the show alive instead of giving up on it.

And it's not like they were THAT reliant on dirty jokes throughout the entire season. During the first cour, absolutely, I can totally see where Yamada is coming from there. But I noticed there was a significant decrease in vulgar humor during the second cour, as well as some legitimately heartfelt moments, especially when the parents were involved. I don't know if that was what they had planned the whole time or if they listened to criticism, but I do think the second cour was a big improvement over the first.

Personally, I'd love to see a third season, and if there is going to be one, then I think it'd be best if they fully embraced their fujoshi fandom. They're the ones who seem like they really care about the characters, especially the ones who are still loyal to the show after all this time. I'm not saying to go full BL, but if they put in more character-driven humor alongside its zanier gags, I don't think they can go wrong. I mean, being a "fujo show" isn't exactly the end of the world.

One thing's for sure: I desperately wanna see an interview with Fujita and Matsubara. I really want to know what's going through their minds about all of this.
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Pierrot.





PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:33 am Reply with quote
The second season is averaging over 10k in BD/DVD sales. Most shows would kill to even get half of its sales.

I think most people are forgetting reports of BD/DVD sales declining over the years and instead streaming has been on the rise. Sequel to shows like Attack on titan, Kekkai Sensen, Blue Exorcist or Haikyuu have all underperformed but they've all been ranking pretty high in Japanese streaming sites like Hulujapan which has over 1.5 million subscribers.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:59 am Reply with quote
Pierrot. wrote:
The second season is averaging over 10k in BD/DVD sales. Most shows would kill to even get half of its sales.

I think most people are forgetting reports of BD/DVD sales declining over the years and instead streaming has been on the rise. Sequel to shows like Attack on titan, Kekkai Sensen, Blue Exorcist or Haikyuu have all underperformed but they've all been ranking pretty high in Japanese streaming sites like Hulujapan which has over 1.5 million subscribers.


But the Japanese consider it a bomb, that matters more than what we in the West think.
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Pierrot.





PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:14 am Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
Pierrot. wrote:
The second season is averaging over 10k in BD/DVD sales. Most shows would kill to even get half of its sales.

I think most people are forgetting reports of BD/DVD sales declining over the years and instead streaming has been on the rise. Sequel to shows like Attack on titan, Kekkai Sensen, Blue Exorcist or Haikyuu have all underperformed but they've all been ranking pretty high in Japanese streaming sites like Hulujapan which has over 1.5 million subscribers.


But the Japanese consider it a bomb, that matters more than what we in the West think.

They think it underperformed compared to season 1 and not that financially it was a flop. Osomatsu-san is a full-fledged franchise now so it doesn't solely rely on BD sales. The mobile game and merchandise are still strong. You don't have to be from Japan to know that.

Besides that, the anime was a relatively tame production similar to season 1.
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